VJU 4 BR 8/ 0 231 115 040 Cast Iron SVDA Distributor

[jdcuda]

I found this to be one of the most informative post I have read on this subject. Easy to follow and understand. Well thought out and presented. Great Job!

[Glenn]

[Braukuche]

[Glenn]

Yes but you might have a issue timing it since the points might have a advance added to it if the 2 plates are not locked in the 0 advance location.

Think about it, the vacuum canister moves the points to add advance. If it's not located correctly to the fixed plate you can have the advance off or have rotor phasing.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
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[Braukuche]

[Glenn]

The mainshaft, drive dog and weights are the same. The other parts are not.

As to preventing the VJU4BR8 breaker plate from moving with the vacuum canister.... drill a hole through both and use a rivet or small screw to lock them together.
You could also use a non-working vacuum canister to keep it in place. If you need any, I have a few and will send for the cost of shipping.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

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[Braukuche]

I came across a few rusty VJ4BR8 and VJU4BR8 distributer sat an estate sale, and have been playing around with them. The VJ4BR8s I can use, not so much the others, and the VJ4BR8s are missing a few parts that the others have. Other than the vacuum can are all the other parts interchangeable? How do they keep the point plate from rotating on the VJ4BR8 without the canister there?
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[Glenn]

While the larger weight of the VJU4BR8 is the same as the 383 and VJ4BR9 (Porsche 356) and the springs are the same, the VJU4BR8 cam is not nearly as aggressive as the 383 and BR9. And yes, the control hole is smaller so the total advance will remain the same.

Bottom line is the advance might come in at a lower rpm.


But you might try using the weights of the 010 which use the same smaller weight but the larger one has a stacked weight.

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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

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[Frederik]

The larger weight (ZPT 213/12) in the BR8 is the same as was used 2 of in the 383 and BR9. The idea I've had for a long time is too adding one more large weight instead of the smaller ZPT 214 Z 29 in the VJUBR8. My hypothesis is that it should behave more like a 383 but with less total advance, if I don't drill out the hole for the advance stop. And obviously minus other differences as springs and advance cam. It's not a plan to try to duplicate a 383 but rather to just test it out and maybe make a "sportier" cast iron SVDA distributor.

The first plan was to butchering two BR8s and use two ZPT 213/12 in one, but it didn't fit in place of the smaller weight. But I sourced a similar weight from another Bosch distributor that fitted perfect and have the same weight and shape otherwise as the ZPT 213/12

However I never seems to take the time to rebuild my distributor machine so I haven't tested it..

[Frederik]

This is the weights and springs used in most of the common Vw and Porsche cast iron distributors

[tasb]

I agree with Glenn's assessment on the use of wire clips over the spring steel cap clips. There doesn't seem to be any firm date. There has been extensive discussion in the past on this topic in the forums. Combine that with the fact that it takes less than five minutes to switch one design with the other and the issue is murky. The wire cap clips are considered extra cool for whatever reason.

I'm not sure I agree with Glenn that the ZV/JCU 4 R 3 is a better choice for high performance applications preferring to consider their use a different option until evidence to the contrary is provided. Although the vacuum canisters have a different design their advance characteristics are identical. The mechanical weights are unique to the ZV/JCU 4 R 3 (150). This distributor has a unique cap design although the standard 03001 cap can be easily modified by filing a notch in the rim. The unique vacuum canisters design should be saved in my opinion, for those doing a correct type III restoration.

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1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018

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[Glenn]

I have seen 383s with both styles all different years. I don't think there was ever a date where it changed. I suspect they had 2 different suppliers and used whatever was available.

BTW.. the ZV/JCU4R3 was used on the 1964 Type 3 with the options 1500S engine. It's a better option for a performance engine than the VJU4BR8.

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[Lingwendil]

Thanks for the info!

By chance do you happen to know around when they went from wire-bale style to the stamped cap hold-down clips? Also, if you have info that will help date the production of these it would be nice too!
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73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!

Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884

Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087!

[tasb]

With regards to the advance tables above, the changeover appears to be July/August 1955. This corresponds to a change in vacuum canister design that is recognizable. The early style canisters had the vacuum port on the canister seperated from the rest of the housing like this:

The canisters that look like this began to be used in December 1953 with the VJU 4 BR 2 and then in January 1954 with the VJU 4 BR 3, finally the VJU 4 BR 8 from August 1954 until July 1955, so there weren't too many of them to begin with and even fewer are found now sixty-five years later.

Here's the later much more familiar later canister design referring to the advance tables:

The advance line port is molded into the canister body. The VJU 4 BR 8's used this "later" canister from August 1955 until the end of model year 1960, so they are plentiful.
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Roads Scholar
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018

1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc

1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse

Member# 2059

[Lingwendil]

Thanks for the pic!

For clarification on those, #1 is 36 horse, #2 is 40 horse, #3 is Type III, and #4 is late Type I.

The Type III clamps usually have a long bolt and sleeve, so they are pretty easy to spot. Leave the bolt long, or swap it for a shorter one. This is how you usually see them-

I find using a slightly shorter bolt with a long threaded coupler instead of a nut makes adjusting them a breeze, no fumbling around on that little nut
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73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!

Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884

Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087!

[Glenn]

[Lingwendil]

Continuing along in our quest to have everything in one place as far as information, I'll be reposting the advance curves that have been shared in the following thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=674612


Advance Curves

Okay, cool. Now we know what parts it needs in order to be usable. Now what? Well, the really nice thing about these distributors that makes them so useful, is that they share the same mechanical advance assembly as the popular 019 "Screamer" and VJ 4 BR 8 distributors, with the added utility of a vacuum advance unit. What this means is that on builds that are set up for ported vacuum in order to use SVDA type distributors, you have the option to use a high-quality, cast-iron distributor.

As far as centrifugal advance, they will differ depending on time of production, and general manufacturing variations. Between 14~20 of centrifugal advance is available, and it is usually all-in by 3200-3600RPM. I find that depending on how you time them, setting them up for a max of 28~30° will give an idle advance of 10~14° usually, which works very well in most instances. On a tight-deck engine, 12° idle, 28° total centrifugal, with 12° vacuum works very well, particularly with Kadrons and other dual single barrel carbs.

Early-

Late-

Here you can see, that a later style vacuum unit will reach full advance with less vacuum, so for certain applications, this may be a benefit. Most of the 040 distributors I come across generally match the later specs for vacuum pull.

Adjusting the vacuum unit

The added benefit of an adjustable diaphragm preload in the vacuum unit, as well as an adjustable linkage arm, means that these distributors can be set up to work well even in instances where there is not enough vacuum to operate many SVDA type distributors. In order to adjust the diaphragm preload, one simply removes the hex plug on the end of the vacuum unit, and using a flathead screwdriver, turn clockwise (for higher vacuum signal) or counter clockwise (for lower vacuum signal) in order to adjust the amount of vacuum it takes for full advance. In order to adjust the full amount of vacuum advance, the linkage arm pivot must be removed from the points plate, and screwed in or out to give the desired total. Most often this will be set for around 10° of max added advance, depending on your application, and the adjustment range should give between 8-12° of advance. I find that limiting total advance (centrifugal and vacuum) to about 40° works well in many situations.

A note on distributor clamps

One last note for now- distributor clamps. When used on a 1300-1600 type of case (rather than the 36 horse original application) you may find that the condensor will foul the distributor mounting bracket, on the right hand side of the clamp, where the bolt is used to tighten the distributor from rotating. One can grind the clamp for clearance, or do like I do, and run a 40 horse style clamp. The 40 horse (and type III) clamps run the bolt on the opposite side of the clamp, which will make this a non-issue. I haven't tried them with the billet types of clamps, so can't comment there. I think they look cheesy. I suppose one could also relocate the condensor higher on the distributor body, but that's a bit of a kludge, and I wouldn't. Of course, if running a points replacement setup, any clamp will do.
_________________
73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!

Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884

Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087!

[Glenn]

[tasb]

[tasb]

Well I can see both sides. fun and educational to modify things, why not. If you prefer one component over another that's fine but if you did this because you wanted easier to find components you've made an error. While NOS Bosch tune up parts might be getting harder to find there are many other brands that have good quality and are NOS. I can appreciate saving the good stuff for the rest of us, thanks.

At one time Wolfsburg West would sell the vacuum line fittings alone, looks like now you have to buy the line too which brings the price up now $25. It was under $10 for both hardware ends. They might still do that if you call them.

The caps were used from 1954 until well into the 1970's on many makes and It does show you what can be done. When the world comes to an end there will be cockroaches and 03010 distributor caps (same as those used on 009 distributors) left on the planet. lol.
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Roads Scholar
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018

1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc

1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse

Member# 2059