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epowell
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Joined: September 23, 2015
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Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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 Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? |
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| crazyvwvanman wrote: |
For sure move that washer so the metal guide ear doesn't hit anything.
Mark |
Yeah! That looks pretty bad actually > might solve a whole lot, just that!
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crazyvwvanman
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| Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? |
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For sure move that washer so the metal guide ear doesn't hit anything.
Mark |
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epowell
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Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? |
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| MarkWard wrote: |
| The plastic on the left side of the box was used instead of a plastic bushing on the shifter. That piece looks like someone’s effort to replace the original that was NLA. It’s fine. |
Yeah, that was me who did that... OK, so I'm good to go now with it as it is now? No more ears needed?
I will look again more closely at the white plastic plate I put there - it looks like in 3rd gear the shifter might be smacking against a big washer that I used... looks like it is touching, and it still "feels" a bit like something is contacting something in 3rd... so maybe it is this.
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MarkWard
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Joined: February 09, 2005
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Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? |
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The plastic on the left side of the box was used instead of a plastic bushing on the shifter. That piece looks like someone’s effort to replace the original that was NLA. It’s fine. There are replacement ears for the later shifter and I bet you could use the one side one yours. They are nice to have, but you can live without them. Christopher from T3 sells them and Go Westy has their own version. Probably could wait till your next trip here.
I retrofitted an entire shifter assembly from a later van. 14 mm shaft does work in the earlier van.
The screws that hold your shift plate should be hex bolts 6mm x 1.0 pitch. Little easier to sinch down on a conventional bolt. |
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epowell
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Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 12:26 pm Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? |
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| michaelbteam wrote: |
| a few days later the shifter broke clean off close to the boot. |
We don't want our shifters breaking. Now I know what Mark meant by the 12mm version vs. the 14mm version. I think this is referring to the thickness of the stick shifter. Mine is 12mm - the *ring* that slips down over the stick that secures the upper spring on my replacement set has a 14mm hole... so I reused the 12mm securing ring from my original parts. I guess VW changed the stick size to 14mm because perhaps the 12mm sticks were breaking. I wonder if it is possible to swap in a 14mm stick - or if the bend on those later sticks is different and therefore non-compatible with the early linkage?
OK, I got 'er in... a pretty easy job thanks to that tutorial. The cool thing for me is that I could make the task much easier by finally getting to actually use two tools I purchased some time ago but almost never use. One was my press > wow, a press sure makes things easy when you actually need one!!! The other was this hammer-on shock screwdriver - without this I don't know how I would have removed those frozen-on philips screws.
The result on shifting: ...for sure this upgrade has given the shifting a very noticeable improvement. My first 3 shifts (cold) into 2nd were all very smooth  ...but still I would say that it is not yet 100% - I think there is still room for improvement >>> the one remaining thing which I think is not OK are the "ears" on these little "horns" down there...
How do these look to you guys. Looks to me like one ear is missing? I don't think these are available to purchase, are they? Has anyone ever fabricated these things?
Here is the inside of my box.
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michaelbteam 
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| Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? |
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A couple of years ago, my shifting seemed to become a little looser and I ignored it, UNTIL: a few days later the shifter broke clean off close to the boot. Luckily I was in a parking lot about a mile from home, and was able to limp home in second gear. Even more fortunately I happened to have a spare shifter at home.
Which reminds me, I need to find another spare! |
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epowell
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Joined: September 23, 2015
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Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 12:03 pm Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? |
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| MarkWard wrote: |
| If you have a helper, set the brake and while you stand behind the van looking down on the engine running. Have your helper select first gear and let the clutch out enough to load the engine. You will see the crankpulley end of the engine moves down quite a bit under load. That changes the shift shaft linkage angles considerably. |
aha... there you go.
I was thinking more about how the inner workings, when under load, would affect shifting also >>> like, it's one thing to shift thru the gears when the engine is not running, but with the engine under load there must be varying types of resistance on the shifter which might not like the balls being moved at a certain angle?
Anyhow, tomorrow I will change the stick shift, and if that doesn't help it I'll have another look at the entire linkage.
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MarkWard
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| Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 11:44 am Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? |
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| If you have a helper, set the brake and while you stand behind the van looking down on the engine running. Have your helper select first gear and let the clutch out enough to load the engine. You will see the crankpulley end of the engine moves down quite a bit under load. That changes the shift shaft linkage angles considerably. |
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epowell
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Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 10:54 am Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? |
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| MarkWard wrote: |
Take one of your spares and shift it through all the gears with your hand to get a feel for how precise the movement is to select each gear from 14 feet away. What complicates your situation is the modified transaxle mount and the one picture above looks like the last section of shift rod has been modified.
I’m able to visually adjust one, but have a lot of experience setting them. You may need to trial and error the adjustment to find that sweet spot.
And yes, wear, slop, misalignment all affect how well it shifts. One thing to remember is sitting in neutral. Pushing the shift lever straight forward must select 3rd. Pulling straight back selects 4th. No side movement to the right is required. All side movement should be towards your leg to get 1st, 2nd, and reverse. That assumes left hand drive. |
From my video above showing the shifting when engine was not running - to me seems like very good shifting..... so what I suspect is that when the engine is actually running, and all other push and pull factors come into play, then under those circumstances the slop, play, and misalignment of the system must show up in bad shifting.... perhaps it is not enough just to get good shifting when the van is on the ground and not running.
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MarkWard
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| Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 10:47 am Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? |
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Take one of your spares and shift it through all the gears with your hand to get a feel for how precise the movement is to select each gear from 14 feet away. What complicates your situation is the modified transaxle mount and the one picture above looks like the last section of shift rod has been modified.
I’m able to visually adjust one, but have a lot of experience setting them. You may need to trial and error the adjustment to find that sweet spot.
And yes, wear, slop, misalignment all affect how well it shifts. One thing to remember is sitting in neutral. Pushing the shift lever straight forward must select 3rd. Pulling straight back selects 4th. No side movement to the right is required. All side movement should be towards your leg to get 1st, 2nd, and reverse. That assumes left hand drive. |
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epowell
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| Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 10:03 am Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? |
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EXCELLENT! Thanks so much!
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0to60in6min
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epowell
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Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 9:29 am Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? |
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Good news is that my parts guy can find that JP made one... thanks Mark for that number!
So tomorrow I will install.... I am a bit intimidated so I will begin studying up on how to do this right now > would be very grateful if any knows of any tutorials on this. [sometimes these little fiddly type things with springs etc can be much more difficult than expected]
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epowell
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:39 am Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? |
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Wow, thanks Mark! I don't know how you found those... this one is really cheap. 27eur incl tax and shipping.
With these new part numbers, if my parts guy can find the stuff, I will get this one from ebay and just rebuild the whole thing...... ....looks pretty tricky to do that however! 
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crazyvwvanman
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epowell
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:12 am Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? |
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...just that 'half ball' Number 39 (251 711 645) is available at many sites for around 5 - 10 $... but it is necessary to get a whole set I wonder... this is around $50 from Poland.
The full kit is 251798116A
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epowell
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Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:59 am Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? |
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| Jeffrey Lee wrote: |
The Vanagon shifter was probably never great to begin with, and is compounded by the Rube Goldberg system necessitated by the sheer length. Old, hard grease, a bit of dirt, 30+ years of wear and neglect, can all add up to a sloppy shifting mechanism.
The more 'soft' parts (plastic, rubber) that you can replace in the shifting system, the more precise less imprecise it will become. |
I get ya!
Time to just replace this old crap.
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Jeffrey Lee
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:55 am Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? |
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The Vanagon shifter was probably never great to begin with, and is compounded by the Rube Goldberg system necessitated by the sheer length. Old, hard grease, a bit of dirt, 30+ years of wear and neglect, can all add up to a sloppy shifting mechanism.
The more 'soft' parts (plastic, rubber) that you can replace in the shifting system, the more precise less imprecise it will become.
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epowell
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Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:31 am Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? |
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I just went out to have a quick peak at the BALL.
I still seams definitely intact - but there is a significant amount of play... check this video:
Link
My shifting is not THAT bad, but bad enough to be concerned. Replacing both hydraulic cylinders definitely helped - but didn't 100% return it to the smooth shifting I had before.
Here is a video from below of my shifting:
Link
| crazyvwvanman wrote: |
Part number 39 is a typical failure item. That with part 38 and both 36 pieces you cover the usual issues. A full kit with more than you need may be the most economical in spite of not needing a lot of it.
Didn't see that stuff on the T3technique link. Other places have it for sure, such as VanCafe who lists both the early 12mm kit and the more common 14mm kit.
Mark |
OK, I will try to find a "kit"... I guess there is an "early version" (12mm?)? That would be for me As usual.
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crazyvwvanman
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:01 am Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? |
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Part number 39 is a typical failure item. That with part 38 and both 36 pieces you cover the usual issues. A full kit with more than you need may be the most economical in spite of not needing a lot of it.
Didn't see that stuff on the T3technique link. Other places have it for sure, such as VanCafe who lists both the early 12mm kit and the more common 14mm kit.
Mark |
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