Muffler restoration shop?

[harrymarlin]

[tattooed_pariah]

Just get something like the A-1 bullet "muffler" then you can easily inspect if it needs cleaning...

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-pariah
'72 Volksrod

[harrymarlin]

Definitely stock pea shooters after all this!

I have a few VW HWE stamped exhaust tips I am going to use on the muffler. The original muffler had a couple of dented and rusted out VW stamped tips, but I haven't been able to find any of those, except the HWE ones - anyone have originals?

Everett - originally I was going to have Jet Hot paint the muffler and heater boxes in "Muscle Gray," but they couldn't get the color right (it kept on coming out green, apparently), so I ended up going with Titanium, which has a slight bit more sheen than I desired.

The intake manifold was "heat resistant paint with ceramic" by TheSamba user branston, when he restored my original manifold. He just said it was the "correct color grey," but I'm checking on the exact paint used. It looks really great. He was able to clean out the manifold when my folks here couldn't.

For anyone interested in going through this process, just know that it cost me about 10 times more than buying a new muffler, so don't do this to save money.
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-Harry
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1967 Ruby Red Convertible Beetle ("Becky")
ISO Albuquerque "Imported Motors" dealership paraphernalia

[EverettB]

I'm interested to know what color Jet-Hot you used too.

Your intake also looks like it could be coated?
If it's also Jet-Hot, what color was used for that?
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[jeffrey8164]

[Rome]

Looks excellent! Did the shop have a choice of colors for the external ceramic coating?

Will you now treat that special muffler to a nice set of taper-tip pipes instead of bland stock pea-shooters? http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Chrome-Tapered-Tail-Pipes-T1-Pair-p/tapered-tail-pipes.htm

[harrymarlin]

For those following, I finally mounted the restored original muffler on my engine. Since my last post, it has been coated inside with high-temp paint and ceramic coated outside by Jet Hot. Nick at Specialty Cars did a wonderful job on the repairs and restoration (,I couldn't even tell it was welded!), and I look forward to having this muffler for a very long time!

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-Harry
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1967 Ruby Red Convertible Beetle ("Becky")
ISO Albuquerque "Imported Motors" dealership paraphernalia

[harrymarlin]

[busdaddy]

How far out of the muffler isn't as important as how far you insert the tail pipe, there's some measurements and discussion on it here: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=634080
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[sjbartnik]

It is supposed to come out into the tailpipe, that's what makes the heat riser work. Just how far exactly, I couldn't tell you.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[harrymarlin]

I thought so, as well, Jos! After scouring the gallery (apparently taking a picture directly up a tail pipe is not a popular photo), I found the following pictures - one from a 36hp, and one from a 1965 Beetle. They both seem to show the pre-heat outlet coming out of the tailpipe slightly. So, I guess he measured correctly.

Or are you guys seeing it differently?

_________________
-Harry
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1967 Ruby Red Convertible Beetle ("Becky")
ISO Albuquerque "Imported Motors" dealership paraphernalia

[Jos.Hall]

I would think that the preheat tube coming that far out would restrict the exhaust gases more than normal. If it were mine I would take a dremel or similar rotary tool and use a wheel to cut the excess tubing back an inch or two. With a small enough cutting disc you should be able to get the blade all the way and cut it off right at the tailpipe base. Gotta make sure the cutoff wheel shaft is long enough though.
The other option would be to try and put a bigger bend on the pre heat tube while it's still inside the muffler. This would be difficult but with some redneck engineering (of which I hold a doctorate), it could be done.

[harrymarlin]

So, the person working on the muffler didn't measure the pre-heat tube from inside the muffler, but *did* measure the entire pre-heat tube before installation:

However, the end result shows a pre-heat tube coming significantly through the tailpipe. This looks pretty far to me - and not something I remember seeing.

It's unfortunate that the pictures before showed an inside so black it's possible we just couldn't see it. I have a NOS muffler (OEM), and the pre-heat tube ends at the entrance of the tailpipe in the muffler (the tailpipe appears to be 2.5" long). Below is an original picture from the same angle:

Note, you can always grind down, but you can't build back up. Potential questions I had:
1) Having the pre-heat tube through the tail pipe takes up space in a small pipe - does it impact the exhaust trying to come out from the main muffler?
2) Why would OEM have the pre-heat tube end farther back into the muffler?
3) Would having the pre-heat tube out this far impact the tips slipped onto the tail pipe - or be impacted by the tips?
4) As long as it is in the tail pipe, does it make a difference how far into the tailpipe the pre-heat tube goes?

So, anyone here have an OE muffler they can compare against? Thanks!
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-Harry
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1967 Ruby Red Convertible Beetle ("Becky")
ISO Albuquerque "Imported Motors" dealership paraphernalia

[harrymarlin]

[Jos.Hall]

not that my .02 are worth much but for your level of restoration, I'd avoid the sheath wrapping as much as possible. In the end it'll be the one spot your eye is always drawn to. Along with what KTPhil was saying I'd have the whole tube replaced. It's gonna be about the same price to have the whole piece replaced as it is just to have it patched. As for a replacement part there are plenty of people out here who have spare mufflers laying around and wouldn't mind cutting off the heat riser for the cost of shipping. In fact, if need be I'll cut the one of my current muffler and send it to you in the box I'm sending your way. (I'm assuming I'll find an NOS muffler someday that I have the spare funds for lol)

[harrymarlin]

Good point - I'll pass on that information. Do you suppose that is the kind of thing which can be successfully "patched" or even have a sheath wrapped around it, or does it need to be replaced? Are there comparable replacements (or substitutions) out there, or would I need to buy a new muffler to get that replacement part?

Thanks, KTPhil!
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-Harry
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1967 Ruby Red Convertible Beetle ("Becky")
ISO Albuquerque "Imported Motors" dealership paraphernalia

[KTPhil]

When you replace that pre-heat tube, make sure the length of its protrusion into the muffler body is measured first, and duplicated exactly.

That distance, and the precise insertion depth of the "peas shooter" (resonator) on that side determine if/how well your heat riser will work.

[harrymarlin]

Here are some better pictures (straight on) of the inside, after blasting. He's planning on painting the inside with an exhaust manifold paint (the inside about an inch away from the weld so the welding process doesn’t burn the coating and contaminate the weld). Then after it is welded back together he will pour in the manifold paint to coat the edges around where it was welded back together. This sounds similar to what Roland suggested before, but now it's open.

_________________
-Harry
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1967 Ruby Red Convertible Beetle ("Becky")
ISO Albuquerque "Imported Motors" dealership paraphernalia

[harrymarlin]

All - thank you for your advice and thoughts. I contacted 4 companies around the country who looked like they might be willing to do this project on my 1967 1500cc engine muffler, and only one responded (Specialty Cars in PA) - and they were enthusiastic about it. So far, they have been great to work with, and sent many photos.

I am trying to keep my 67 as original as possible, and I believe this muffler is original to the car (the tips attached to it were rusted out, but had a VW stamp on them, and I haven't seen any aftermarket mufflers stamped like this one, other than were what people believed to be original on their car).

Here's what it looked like, originally - some surface rust and a big dent with a hole (uh oh!) into the muffler:

They first did a boor scope of the muffler (perhaps to verify any damage and make sure the cut would be safe). I believe the first picture shows the dent from the inside.

It looked pretty good, but it's hard to tell from the photos, so he cut it open right in front of the seam/weld. Other than being really black inside, it looked pretty good! Note, the close up of the dent (and you can see the hole), in the second picture.

But, what's really there? He put it in a blasting cabinet, and we see the following:

He did note that the pre-heat tube has an almost rusted through couple of holes (from the outside), which will need to be replaced/fixed. Anyone have a good quality pre-heat tube they would sell me?

Interestingly, this really goes against my previous understanding/wisdom, which is that mufflers rust from the inside/out. This one appears to be more worn on the outside than the inside. Perhaps the inside gets hot enough to reduce any moisture that gets trapped in it? Thoughts?

I'll post more pics, post-repair, but please let me know your thoughts, as I haven't seen anyone post pictures of a taken apart muffler before (other than this thread - oprn?). Is it just not worth it to most?
_________________
-Harry
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1967 Ruby Red Convertible Beetle ("Becky")
ISO Albuquerque "Imported Motors" dealership paraphernalia

[Rome]

Thanks for the kind words, Joe! Yeah, that junkyard was wonderful- Keahon's in Haverstraw NY right along the Hudson River about 35 miles N of Manhattan. Cars piled 3 high, sometimes teetering precariously. Wasp nests in fenderwells, mud mixed with oil on the ground puddles/sludge; wonderful. Explore and remove parts at your own risk. During the '90's there were some amazing cars*, not just VWs which were my main target; though I remember a Marathon Blue '73 SportsBug from which I wanted to remove the front sport seats. Car was plopped down onto the roof of another car so that the pan's seat tracks were tweaked and I could not get the seat to budge.

*Kaiser Manhattan, BMW Isetta, Sunbeam Alpine, Mercedes-Benz 300 SEL 6.3, Lancia Flaminia, and the one that takes the cake for me- a German Amphicar!

gkeeton makes an excellent point about muffler revival vs. state inspections. If the PO is lucky to have friends who can do some of my suggested steps, it's likely you could do the resto work (except for the ceramic coating) for a comparable price as an NOS German muffler. But I also enjoy the aspect of reviving a marginal German original part back into a serviceable condition vs buying a new part.