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tasb
The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 6856
Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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 Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:35 pm Post subject: Re: This coil with a 009 w/points? |
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| modok wrote: |
If you want an "OLD style" coil, IMO you should jet get an OLD coil.
They are not built any better today than they were in the past.
In the past, it was common for people would buy a new one and try it, just to "see" if that fixed the problem.....and of course it rarely did.
So by the year 2000 there were 2-3 more coils than engines, or perhaps more. Where did the go?
Even today I doubt we have run out yet.
Just buy a few and test them, and if they test good... they are good.
It's just a box of wire, basically does not degrade with time.
Tho.. probably the insulation may fail someday, with enough use or overheating, but usually they outlasted the car itself unless abused.
I'm using a coil made in 1974, working just fine, in fact being OVERDRIVEN at more amps than it was made to handle. Not even worried about it.
I was going to recomend you to use a TFI module to run your stinger coil, which should work...but, there is no best way to make a spark, any way works well when done right. |
Totally agree with this and the above. About 8 out of 10 that I test are good. I run original 50-60 year old coils in all of my cars.
_________________
Roads Scholar
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse
Member# 2059 |
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croSSeduP
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 1169
Location: Western Washington State
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:33 pm Post subject: Re: This coil with a 009 w/points? |
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| SBD wrote: |
| Set it for X1K. Touch the test leads together and use the dial to make the meter read 0. Then use the test leads to measure between the two small terminals of the coil. |
Thanks. So, if I do that the coil reads at 0 ohms (?). As if I'm just touching the leads together. Hmm.
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Alstrup
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 7951
Location: Videbaek Denmark
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:12 pm Post subject: Re: This coil with a 009 w/points? |
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| britegreenVWSB wrote: |
Interesting, and also the opposite of my experience. When you say a Stinger doesn't work well on a ACVW engine, what exactly do you mean?
In my experience with the one I have, I have nothing but positive things to say. I've had this for several years and it has powered 2, now going for a third, iteration of the same motor. I started with a dual 44 IDF powered 2276. The motor ran smooth all throughout the power band and throttle positions - no flat spots, no hesitations, etc. The next iteration of that 2276 I went to more head, bigger cam and dual Italian 48 IDA's w/o the 3rd prog hole drilled. I've read/heard the stories of tuning issues with 48's on a street car... Not in my case. In fact, it ran smoother with the 48's than it did with the 44 IDF's - No flat spot, no hesitation, from any throttle position, hammer the throttle and it goes like a violated ape. Now it will be sporting a bigger exhaust and a minor mod to the 48's that should pick me up another 5-8 ponies. We'll see what happens.
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Well, odd. All of the systems (with the Stinger distributor) that I have replaced, (not THAT many really, 4 or 5) all had if not flat spots then at least lazy performance especially in the lower rpms. In those day I typically replaced them with a Mallory Unilite with the VW standard grey/grey springs and a P coil, and the engines became totally different to drive. Much more crisp and predictable. |
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SBD
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2012
Posts: 3298
Location: SOUTH DAKOTA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: This coil with a 009 w/points? |
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Set it for X1K. Touch the test leads together and use the dial to make the meter read 0. Then use the test leads to measure between the two small terminals of the coil.
_________________
"Just $99 down and $64 a month for 36 months buys you a brand new Volkswagen Beetle!"
| mark tucker wrote: |
| I wouldent waste $ or thyme on building a small motor. build it big so it dosent have to work hard.remember it's only as fast as your foot alows it to be unless you build a small turd then it just stinks as it squishes up through your toes when you step on it. |
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croSSeduP
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 1169
Location: Western Washington State
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: This coil with a 009 w/points? |
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| Alstrup wrote: |
Stinger coils are generally 1,5 ohm (that I have seen) which will not work well with regular points or compufire/Ignitor modules. You will have to test it to be sure.
Ps. On second thought the 3102 is designed to be used with a S4 ignition box. So the answer to your question is no.
One word of warning too. - Stinger systems may work well on V8´s and some Japanese engines. In my time I have never seen a Stinger work well on an acvw or Porsche. I have replaced several of them. Imho they are outdated and only worth something in vintage exhibits. |
Interesting, and also the opposite of my experience. When you say a Stinger doesn't work well on a ACVW engine, what exactly do you mean?
In my experience with the one I have, I have nothing but positive things to say. I've had this for several years and it has powered 2, now going for a third, iteration of the same motor. I started with a dual 44 IDF powered 2276. The motor ran smooth all throughout the power band and throttle positions - no flat spots, no hesitations, etc. The next iteration of that 2276 I went to more head, bigger cam and dual Italian 48 IDA's w/o the 3rd prog hole drilled. I've read/heard the stories of tuning issues with 48's on a street car... Not in my case. In fact, it ran smoother with the 48's than it did with the 44 IDF's - No flat spot, no hesitation, from any throttle position, hammer the throttle and it goes like a violated ape. Now it will be sporting a bigger exhaust and a minor mod to the 48's that should pick me up another 5-8 ponies. We'll see what happens.
| jpaull wrote: |
We need a Berg-ite who knows about stinger ignitions to jump in.
I bet you need a ballast resister to run it. If that coil is under 3 ohms then you will need it.
Chinese/Brazil/German , if it has points it don't matter. If It will work or not is solely based upon if the coil is 3 ohm or if its less.
There is one reference to the stinger coil that it suggests it interchanges with standard points coils, which would mean 3ohm.
Email/call Berg. If its 3ohm run it.
Have a Multi Meter? Ohm it out. With all the wires taken off the terminals of the coil attach the positive and negative, red and black, wires of the meter to first the small terminals (Positive and Negative) that are printed or stamped on the coil. You should have a reading of at least 3-4.5 ohms for use with points or points replacement devices, which is the resistance reading inside the coil. (Copied from Aircooled.net) |
This ignition does have the ballast resistor, but I don't think that comes into play if I'm using a 009. Without digging into everything, I think the ballast resistor goes between the Stinger brain and the coil.
Re. ohming out the coil with a multimeter... I don't know how to use a multi meter. What do I set it to? There's two settings for ohms on my multi meter - X1K and X10K. Which one? Also, there's a dial on the side that says, "ohms Adjust." What does that mean?
I said already I don't know electronics. All I know about wiring is if you follow a wiring diagram properly, everything should function properly.
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=502253&highlight= |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 27754
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: This coil with a 009 w/points? |
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If you want an "OLD style" coil, IMO you should jet get an OLD coil.
They are not built any better today than they were in the past.
In the past, it was common for people would buy a new one and try it, just to "see" if that fixed the problem.....and of course it rarely did.
So by the year 2000 there were 2-3 more coils than engines, or perhaps more. Where did the go?
Even today I doubt we have run out yet.
Just buy a few and test them, and if they test good... they are good.
It's just a box of wire, basically does not degrade with time.
Tho.. probably the insulation may fail someday, with enough use or overheating, but usually they outlasted the car itself unless abused.
I'm using a coil made in 1974, working just fine, in fact being OVERDRIVEN at more amps than it was made to handle. Not even worried about it.
I was going to recomend you to use a TFI module to run your stinger coil, which should work...but, there is no best way to make a spark, any way works well when done right. |
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mukluk
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012
Posts: 7452
Location: Clyde, TX
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: This coil with a 009 w/points? |
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| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| britegreenVWSB wrote: |
So, I've been reading some less than positive things about the Bosch blue coil. Look. All I want is a basic, back up ignition. I have acquired a German 009 w/ old skool points, condenser, etc.
What inexpensive coil should I pair it with? Ignition/electronics are not my forte.
Thanks.
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If it's gonna ride in your trunk until that one time your ignition leaves you on the side of the road.
Then just get a blue coil and use it to get ya home. I do!
Good Luck. |
Likewise, the Stinger coil you posted at the very first should get you home, but if used for much more than that you'll likely burn the points assuming the 1.5ohm resistance posted earlier is accurate. Good information was already provided by jpaull regarding how to check that coil to see if it's suitable for use with points or not and how to make it suitable if the resistance across the primary is too low.
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1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga" |
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67rustavenger
Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 11557
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: This coil with a 009 w/points? |
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| britegreenVWSB wrote: |
So, I've been reading some less than positive things about the Bosch blue coil. Look. All I want is a basic, back up ignition. I have acquired a German 009 w/ old skool points, condenser, etc.
What inexpensive coil should I pair it with? Ignition/electronics are not my forte.
Thanks.
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If it's gonna ride in your trunk until that one time your ignition leaves you on the side of the road.
Then just get a blue coil and use it to get ya home. I do!
Good Luck.
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I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
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GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!
2003 Astrovan? GFYS again, Xevin! 
Don't let your bad ideas remain, ideas! |
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croSSeduP
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 1169
Location: Western Washington State
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: This coil with a 009 w/points? |
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So, I've been reading some less than positive things about the Bosch blue coil. Look. All I want is a basic, back up ignition. I have acquired a German 009 w/ old skool points, condenser, etc.
What inexpensive coil should I pair it with? Ignition/electronics are not my forte.
Thanks.
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Please check my '67 sedan project progress!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=502253&highlight= |
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croSSeduP
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 1169
Location: Western Washington State
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 80458
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:24 pm Post subject: Re: This coil with a 009 w/points? |
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| modok wrote: |
| Lately it's as bad a politics. |
Agreed.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 27754
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: This coil with a 009 w/points? |
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Oh, just deleted it on second thought.
Was just a simple question, not a good place to go evangelizing about ignition systems. Lately it's as bad a politics. |
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SBD
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2012
Posts: 3298
Location: SOUTH DAKOTA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: This coil with a 009 w/points? |
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 Modok, what happened to your "battery hospice" comment? I loved it! 
_________________
"Just $99 down and $64 a month for 36 months buys you a brand new Volkswagen Beetle!"
| mark tucker wrote: |
| I wouldent waste $ or thyme on building a small motor. build it big so it dosent have to work hard.remember it's only as fast as your foot alows it to be unless you build a small turd then it just stinks as it squishes up through your toes when you step on it. |
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croSSeduP
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 1169
Location: Western Washington State
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: This coil with a 009 w/points? |
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| Quote: |
How in the world are we supposed to know?
You can search for the specifications of your coil and then ask about that but please don’t ask us to do research. |
Wow. Jeez. Excuse me.
| Quote: |
I think you are asking if you can just hook it up,
No |
Thank you, Modok. I'll just pick up a blue coil then.
The reason (if anybody cares) I'm asking this is that the Stinger ignition takes a full 12v to create enough spark to fire. In the past when I've tried to start the engine to break in the cam with this thing, I had trouble getting it to fire. Meanwhile I'm cranking and cranking, lifters wiping on the cam lobes... Yikes. For break-in I wanted to get something simpler so that it will just fire up.
Also, if any foreign or domestic power fires an EMP I'll have an ignition on at least ONE of my cars that isn't fried so I can still drive.
_________________
Please check my '67 sedan project progress!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=502253&highlight=
Last edited by croSSeduP on Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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rugblaster
Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2016
Posts: 1242
Location: San Angelo, Texas
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: This coil with a 009 w/points? |
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It's just a coil, so it will work. It probably needs an external resistor as stated. Bosch was the bastard with internal resistance. You can use it as is and smoke points right and left. I saw one like that explode in the shop one day. The tech brought the car in and was tracing electrical issues with the key in the on position, engine not running and BLAMO........the top of the coil exited the rest of the coil with a force that moved the coil all the way up the clamp and deposited oil and windings all over the left side of the engine.
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'09 MB E350 '18 MB E400, '65 Plymouth Valiant convertible and a '19 Ford F250 King Ranch (nicer, but dirty, farm truck)
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74 Thing
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004
Posts: 7677
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: This coil with a 009 w/points? |
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| Get a multimeter out and check the ohms...shooting for 3.0 ohms as stated above. |
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Alstrup
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 7951
Location: Videbaek Denmark
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:50 am Post subject: Re: This coil with a 009 w/points? |
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Stinger coils are generally 1,5 ohm (that I have seen) which will not work well with regular points or compufire/Ignitor modules. You will have to test it to be sure.
Ps. On second thought the 3102 is designed to be used with a S4 ignition box. So the answer to your question is no.
One word of warning too. - Stinger systems may work well on V8´s and some Japanese engines. In my time I have never seen a Stinger work well on an acvw or Porsche. I have replaced several of them. Imho they are outdated and only worth something in vintage exhibits. |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 27754
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:08 pm Post subject: Re: This coil with a 009 w/points? |
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I think you are asking if you can just hook it up,
No |
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jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3680
Location: Paradise, Ca
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:55 pm Post subject: Re: This coil with a 009 w/points? |
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We need a Berg-ite who knows about stinger ignitions to jump in.
I bet you need a ballast resister to run it. If that coil is under 3 ohms then you will need it.
Chinese/Brazil/German , if it has points it don't matter. If It will work or not is solely based upon if the coil is 3 ohm or if its less.
There is one reference to the stinger coil that it suggests it interchanges with standard points coils, which would mean 3ohm.
Email/call Berg. If its 3ohm run it.
Have a Multi Meter? Ohm it out. With all the wires taken off the terminals of the coil attach the positive and negative, red and black, wires of the meter to first the small terminals (Positive and Negative) that are printed or stamped on the coil. You should have a reading of at least 3-4.5 ohms for use with points or points replacement devices, which is the resistance reading inside the coil. (Copied from Aircooled.net) |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 33478
Location: Hot Arizona
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