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Tom K.
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Joined: March 10, 2005
Posts: 1691
Location: Central Pennsylvania
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10451
Location: NW Arkansas
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 Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: Auto Stick SOLENOID for 72 Super Beetle can`t find ? |
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Awesome good to hear you got it running!
Usually with the autostick it is something simple, external to the transmission itself, and cheap/ easy to fix-- which is why it has a very underserved bad rep for unreliability, because lots of VW "mechanics" back in the day didn't know how to diagnose the entire system, and just told folks they needed a whole new tranny. VERY rarely is that the case- our original autostick lasted for 44 years before the clutch finally gave up the ghost; the used one we replaced it with has lasted 12 years now.
_________________
I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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Markymarc
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2015
Posts: 129
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:00 am Post subject: Re: Auto Stick SOLENOID for 72 Super Beetle can`t find ? |
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| sb001 wrote: |
| Markymarc wrote: |
I took a picture here with a mess under the backseat and I’m not aware of where any of these loose wires go I’m looking for the black wire coming from the shifter through the tunnel into the backseat which I don’t see other than a small one it’s going to a regulator That I’m not sure what the relay that I’m not sure what or where it’s going ?
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Tom is correct, your shifter (ground) wire to the control valve solenoid is the one with the electric tape on it. It should be coming from the bottom contact in your shifter, run alongside the driver's side transmission, through one of those VW clear plastic connectors (you can see this connector in your photo), through the back of the floor pan.
When VW installed these at the factory, they simply left the spade connector off the other end of the contact wire until AFTER they had run it through the small hole in the bottom of the shifter, then routed it alongside the tunnel and THEN put the spade connector on before plugging it into that side of the clear plastic connector.
After the wire passes through the floor pan toward the back of the car, it actually runs to the neutral safety switch on your transmission. The main reason it does this is that the switch acts as a temporary ground to keep the clutch disengaged when you are passing through neutral laterally (i.e. left to right) when shifting gears. In neutral is the only gear shifter position you can start the car due to the starter wire grounding out through that switch when the gear shifter is in gear, so it basically accomplishes two tasks.
So you may check the connection of the wire plug on your neutral safety switch. It is on the driver's side of the transmission, up toward the front:
Make sure the shifter wire has a good connection at that switch.
Just for shicks and gittles, try THIS test:
First make sure your shifter contacts are adjusted properly using the video posted above. Then:
Remove the shifter wire from the control valve solenoid. Then attach a jumper lead from that bare end of your blue contact shifter wire STRAIGHT to the terminal on the control valve, this way you will be bypassing the neutral safety switch. Then see if it will shift.
If it still doesn't shift, my guess is you have a bad clutch servo and your problem is not electrical but mechanical. |
Thank you for your help it is now working, and I found that switch on the tranny saturated in oil so it was cleaned and will replace the protective boot that was over it as well that was torn up.
_________________
This VW has had everything removed. All rubbers replaced. Entire electricle replaced. Senergy green paint with mirror finish. Black and grey two toned mesh interior and head liner. Polished out Porche 911 wheels. Disk brakes. 1835cc with fresh barrels and Pistons, dual 44m weber carbs. Auto craft roller rockers with dual springs. Stainless valves with ported cylinders. RC trans with strap and mendeola support. A1 stainless exhaust. MSD ignition. Let me know if you have any questions.... |
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Markymarc
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2015
Posts: 129
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:50 am Post subject: Re: Auto Stick SOLENOID for 72 Super Beetle can`t find ? |
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[
quote="FallyFire"]
Link
Here's a great representation of the Bentley manual instructions for adjusting the shifter properly. This helped me a ton when I did my contact point and it was SPOT on. The instructions at 2:30 and on are really important. [/quote]
The video was more than helpful! After tracking and testing the wires and found solenoid working and the previous dork that replaced the wire prior had cut the wire in 3 different sections within the original loom. So we then ran a new negative wire from the wire coming through the tunnel from the stick shift under the back seat and ran to the solenoid and Walla ! Then with the fine-tuning adjustments at the shifter with video smooth as silk. Can`t say Thank you enough for the help suggestions and guidance friends!
_________________
This VW has had everything removed. All rubbers replaced. Entire electricle replaced. Senergy green paint with mirror finish. Black and grey two toned mesh interior and head liner. Polished out Porche 911 wheels. Disk brakes. 1835cc with fresh barrels and Pistons, dual 44m weber carbs. Auto craft roller rockers with dual springs. Stainless valves with ported cylinders. RC trans with strap and mendeola support. A1 stainless exhaust. MSD ignition. Let me know if you have any questions.... |
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10451
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: Auto Stick SOLENOID for 72 Super Beetle can`t find ? |
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| Markymarc wrote: |
I took a picture here with a mess under the backseat and I’m not aware of where any of these loose wires go I’m looking for the black wire coming from the shifter through the tunnel into the backseat which I don’t see other than a small one it’s going to a regulator That I’m not sure what the relay that I’m not sure what or where it’s going ?
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Tom is correct, your shifter (ground) wire to the control valve solenoid is the one with the electric tape on it. It should be coming from the bottom contact in your shifter, run alongside the driver's side transmission, through one of those VW clear plastic connectors (you can see this connector in your photo), through the back of the floor pan.
When VW installed these at the factory, they simply left the spade connector off the other end of the contact wire until AFTER they had run it through the small hole in the bottom of the shifter, then routed it alongside the tunnel and THEN put the spade connector on before plugging it into that side of the clear plastic connector.
After the wire passes through the floor pan toward the back of the car, it actually runs to the neutral safety switch on your transmission. The main reason it does this is that the switch acts as a temporary ground to keep the clutch disengaged when you are passing through neutral laterally (i.e. left to right) when shifting gears. In neutral is the only gear shifter position you can start the car due to the starter wire grounding out through that switch when the gear shifter is in gear, so it basically accomplishes two tasks.
So you may check the connection of the wire plug on your neutral safety switch. It is on the driver's side of the transmission, up toward the front:
Make sure the shifter wire has a good connection at that switch.
Just for shicks and gittles, try THIS test:
First make sure your shifter contacts are adjusted properly using the video posted above. Then:
Remove the shifter wire from the control valve solenoid. Then attach a jumper lead from that bare end of your blue contact shifter wire STRAIGHT to the terminal on the control valve, this way you will be bypassing the neutral safety switch. Then see if it will shift.
If it still doesn't shift, my guess is you have a bad clutch servo and your problem is not electrical but mechanical.
_________________
I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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Tom K.
Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2005
Posts: 1691
Location: Central Pennsylvania
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Markymarc
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2015
Posts: 129
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 12:02 am Post subject: Re: Auto Stick SOLENOID for 72 Super Beetle can`t find ? |
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Great thanks ! Can you see the wire that may be associated with the shifter wire ?
_________________
This VW has had everything removed. All rubbers replaced. Entire electricle replaced. Senergy green paint with mirror finish. Black and grey two toned mesh interior and head liner. Polished out Porche 911 wheels. Disk brakes. 1835cc with fresh barrels and Pistons, dual 44m weber carbs. Auto craft roller rockers with dual springs. Stainless valves with ported cylinders. RC trans with strap and mendeola support. A1 stainless exhaust. MSD ignition. Let me know if you have any questions.... |
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Tom K.
Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2005
Posts: 1691
Location: Central Pennsylvania
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Markymarc
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2015
Posts: 129
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: Auto Stick SOLENOID for 72 Super Beetle can`t find ? |
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I took a picture here with a mess under the backseat and I’m not aware of where any of these loose wires go I’m looking for the black wire coming from the shifter through the tunnel into the backseat which I don’t see other than a small one it’s going to a regulator That I’m not sure what the relay that I’m not sure what or where it’s going ?
_________________
This VW has had everything removed. All rubbers replaced. Entire electricle replaced. Senergy green paint with mirror finish. Black and grey two toned mesh interior and head liner. Polished out Porche 911 wheels. Disk brakes. 1835cc with fresh barrels and Pistons, dual 44m weber carbs. Auto craft roller rockers with dual springs. Stainless valves with ported cylinders. RC trans with strap and mendeola support. A1 stainless exhaust. MSD ignition. Let me know if you have any questions.... |
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Tom K.
Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2005
Posts: 1691
Location: Central Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: Auto Stick SOLENOID for 72 Super Beetle can`t find ? |
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By the way I didn't find Bentley too helpful with the adjustment (tighten then back it off one half turn). Instead I adjusted that shift contact with the engine idling and the rear wheels off the ground (on jack stands). I would adjust and then shift and then adjust and then shift, repeat, repeat, repeat until I was happy. I have no idea his many turns it was. If the shifter is too high then the clutch will not disengage (grind). If the shifter is too low then the clutch doesn't re engage (wheels don't turn when in gear).
_________________
'91 Vanagon Westfalia
'70 Beetle Convertible
'71 Super Beetle Semi-Automatic: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714131&highlight=
'65 Ghia: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=762478&highlight=
Last edited by Tom K. on Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tom K.
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Joined: March 10, 2005
Posts: 1691
Location: Central Pennsylvania
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Markymarc
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2015
Posts: 129
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: Auto Stick SOLENOID for 72 Super Beetle can`t find ? |
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Is it possible not to cut the wire and feed through the tiny 1/8 inch opening to go through with a female spade on the other end ? Thats how it was before I just copied it. There was a Black wire present already leading back so I just tied into it like the prior person did when they fixed it ?
_________________
This VW has had everything removed. All rubbers replaced. Entire electricle replaced. Senergy green paint with mirror finish. Black and grey two toned mesh interior and head liner. Polished out Porche 911 wheels. Disk brakes. 1835cc with fresh barrels and Pistons, dual 44m weber carbs. Auto craft roller rockers with dual springs. Stainless valves with ported cylinders. RC trans with strap and mendeola support. A1 stainless exhaust. MSD ignition. Let me know if you have any questions.... |
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Tom K.
Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2005
Posts: 1691
Location: Central Pennsylvania
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FallyFire
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2023
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: Auto Stick SOLENOID for 72 Super Beetle can`t find ? |
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Link
Here's a great representation of the bentley manual instructions for adjusting the shifter properly. This helped me a ton when I did my contact point and it was SPOT on. The instructions at 2:30 and on are really important. |
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Markymarc
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2015
Posts: 129
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:47 am Post subject: Re: Auto Stick SOLENOID for 72 Super Beetle can`t find ? |
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| Markymarc wrote: |
[img]https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/2378920.jpg[/img
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Not shur if an adjustment is needed at the shifter so it is grounding properly ?
_________________
This VW has had everything removed. All rubbers replaced. Entire electricle replaced. Senergy green paint with mirror finish. Black and grey two toned mesh interior and head liner. Polished out Porche 911 wheels. Disk brakes. 1835cc with fresh barrels and Pistons, dual 44m weber carbs. Auto craft roller rockers with dual springs. Stainless valves with ported cylinders. RC trans with strap and mendeola support. A1 stainless exhaust. MSD ignition. Let me know if you have any questions.... |
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Markymarc
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2015
Posts: 129
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:44 am Post subject: Re: Auto Stick SOLENOID for 72 Super Beetle can`t find ? |
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[img]https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/2378920.jpg[/img
_________________
This VW has had everything removed. All rubbers replaced. Entire electricle replaced. Senergy green paint with mirror finish. Black and grey two toned mesh interior and head liner. Polished out Porche 911 wheels. Disk brakes. 1835cc with fresh barrels and Pistons, dual 44m weber carbs. Auto craft roller rockers with dual springs. Stainless valves with ported cylinders. RC trans with strap and mendeola support. A1 stainless exhaust. MSD ignition. Let me know if you have any questions.... |
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Markymarc
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2015
Posts: 129
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:34 am Post subject: Re: Auto Stick SOLENOID for 72 Super Beetle can`t find ? |
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As indicated I already replaced with the blue wire and I’m going to test if the wire where it’s cut and connected and touch to the body for ground to make sure I’ don’t have a cut in the wire between the shifter and the solenoid. If that clicks now I’m in trouble because I have power to and ground and solenoid works but still doesn’t shift 🥲
_________________
This VW has had everything removed. All rubbers replaced. Entire electricle replaced. Senergy green paint with mirror finish. Black and grey two toned mesh interior and head liner. Polished out Porche 911 wheels. Disk brakes. 1835cc with fresh barrels and Pistons, dual 44m weber carbs. Auto craft roller rockers with dual springs. Stainless valves with ported cylinders. RC trans with strap and mendeola support. A1 stainless exhaust. MSD ignition. Let me know if you have any questions.... |
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Tom K.
Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2005
Posts: 1691
Location: Central Pennsylvania
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Markymarc
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2015
Posts: 129
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2023 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: Auto Stick SOLENOID for 72 Super Beetle can`t find ? |
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I did put a new blue wire in with the brass tip. The prior wire was cut and held together with a wire tie. The new wire I purchased is about 4 feet long but will not fit through the tiny hole the wire feeds through with a fixed female spade on the end. So I cut it like the person did that replaced it before, knowing it didn't come cut from factory. But where it is cut at the shifter one can touch that open wire to the body with key on to hear the click. That way I will know that there is not a cut in the wire from the shifter to the solenoid in between?
What you think ?
_________________
This VW has had everything removed. All rubbers replaced. Entire electricle replaced. Senergy green paint with mirror finish. Black and grey two toned mesh interior and head liner. Polished out Porche 911 wheels. Disk brakes. 1835cc with fresh barrels and Pistons, dual 44m weber carbs. Auto craft roller rockers with dual springs. Stainless valves with ported cylinders. RC trans with strap and mendeola support. A1 stainless exhaust. MSD ignition. Let me know if you have any questions.... |
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Tom K.
Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2005
Posts: 1691
Location: Central Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2023 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: Auto Stick SOLENOID for 72 Super Beetle can`t find ? |
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The circuit begins at the spark coil. Power flows from there through a fuse and then to one spade on the solenoid. Then from the second spade the wire (it's brown on my '71) takes the power all the way to the shifter. When you push down on the shifter, the power is grounded into the chassis and returns to the battery.
So if your ignition is on (power to coil) then you should have power all the way to your shifter. You could unscrew your shifter and then touch the chassis with the brass tip. If the solenoid clucks every time you touch, then your electric circuit is fine.
_________________
'91 Vanagon Westfalia
'70 Beetle Convertible
'71 Super Beetle Semi-Automatic: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714131&highlight=
'65 Ghia: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=762478&highlight= |
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