Has anyone not liked the BMW booster upgrade?

[mitch5]

So update, for all those considering doing a swap with booster. Now that I have driven the van I will say it’s not as soft as it was Initially, it stops and has the feel similar to an early 2000’s Subaru. I had some air trapped in the master that the power bleed didn’t get. Cracking open the line then depressing the pedal finally got that.

I will suggest that if you planning to update/convert to discs then I would swap the brakes first without ditching the stock booster. If you like the pedal feel with that then I would keep it. The bmw booster will just decrease the overall force needed but also will change how/when the force is applied.

[dkoesyncro]

I have had the girling 60 front brakes and BMW booster for apx. 13 yrs. This has been a great feel. This last MogFest I produced some carnage that gave me an opportunity to do a rear disc conversion. I made my own using the Eurovan.

I had a hell of a time bleeding the system so I thought! Soft pedal after soft pedal and nearly 3 qts. of fluid. I convinced myself that my son had over extended the MC and the seals rolled while bleeding . I took apart the MC, cleaned it up and ensured that the seals will ride right. Bench Bled the MC and repeated the whole thing again with a pressure bleeder.

I cracked everything, even the rumored air trapped proportioning valve, joints and junctions. Viola, absolutely sure I’m air free. However, I will report that the pedal feel is softer than it was with rear drums. The e-brake is great though.

As for the MC, years ago and maybe it was even Siekel the Audi 4000 MC was an option. Although fluid dynamics is not my specialty and I believe that larger lines were also needed for those who were going to benefit from this conversion.

[Sodo]

Interesting re: charged particles sticking….. but how much heat can a tiny particle retain as it passes through the air enroute to your shiny bits?

I wonder if there is an acid etch or something.
It seems to me that it wipes off easily, if you clean it soon, more difficult if you wait.

Wouldn’t the amount of dust depend upon how you use your “increased pedal assistance”?
Braking harder will logically produce more brake dust.
Some might brake the same as before, just pushing less hard on the pedal, and get “same dust.
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'90 Westy EJ25, NEW oil rings (!) 2Peloquins, 3knobs, SyncroShop pressure-oiled pinion-bearing & GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox.
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered original gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[Gnarlodious]

I guess I would also warn that with this upgrade you are going to see more black dust on your front wheels. Like, a LOT of black dust, I am constantly cleaning it off because I have shiny parts. The dust comes off the brakes hot and electrically charged, so it sticks mightily and on some surfaces actually burns itself into the coating. reporst are that ceramic brake pads being a lighter color make less visible dust particles. Also that a "ceramic wax" on your wheels will prevent such severe sticking. I don't know for real but researched it because of such a lot of black dust on my wheels.
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Vanagon ’83 diesel AAZ w/Giles injection, 5spd 4.57R&P+TBD and a '78 diesel Rabbit

[Sodo]

[ALIKA T3]

[MarkWard]

[Christopher Schimke]

[82westyrabbit]

I installed a BMW brake booster with stock early brakes about four years ago. Just to make it clear, I installed the brake booster because it was cheap and available not because I was looking for a performance upgrade. At first I felt like I had a soft pedal. I had to rebleed the brakes, and I adjusted the rear brakes to get the pedal to feel right. It takes less pedal pressure to stop the van but the pedal is at the same hight as it was before the BMW booster. If the rest of the brake system is not in great shape the new booster will amplify the problem. The speedometer cable is a problem. I get a slight clicking sound from the cable. I am happy with the upgrade if you want to call it that. I have recently installed a big brake kit but have not driven the van since. it will be interesting to see how I feel about the brakes now after I drive it. John

[Sodo]

I have two vans:

'90 Westy Syncro, appx 5,200 lbs, 10% bigger wheels, with big brakes, rear discs, garden-variety brake pad materials and age

'87 TinTop Syncro, appx 4300 lbs, 10% bigger wheels, 100% original 54k mile factory brakes - original pads, original shoes

The '87 tintop 100% stock brakes feel MUCH better, less pedal pressure.
There are a lot of details to balance when making brake improvements.
Especially if changing multiple parameters at once.
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'90 Westy EJ25, NEW oil rings (!) 2Peloquins, 3knobs, SyncroShop pressure-oiled pinion-bearing & GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox.
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered original gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[Christopher Schimke]

[mitch5]

You are entirely correct that brake “feel” is very subjective. Hard to put an actual number on brake feel but it seems people prefer the bmw booster on a scale of 10:1. That’s what convinced me in the first place.

I prefer a linearly progressive pedal, newer non performance vehicles seem to be the opposite of this where the bite of the brakes seemingly comes from nowhere after the pedal doing nothing for a bit.

Right now the feel is that the initial 1/3 of travel does nothing and doesn’t have the linear feel I had before.

[skills@eurocarsplus]

[Christopher Schimke]

You know, there's one recurring theme in all of this, be it for or against, and that is people using the word "feel" to describe their braking system. Feel is such a subjective word. What feels good to me might feel like garbage to another.

So, what does "feel" mean? How do you define "feels better"? Better than what? And what are you basing your feelings on?

Are you basing it on the fact that your last brake setup had a hard pedal and took more leg effort to make the van stop and your new brake system has a much softer pedal? And did you come to this conclusion because you are comparing it to the way your modern Honda brakes feel? Or, are you saying that your new brake kit and booster make the pedal feel too soft, dead, and/or hard to modulate?

What if I prefer a pedal feel that is a bit harder than a modern car, but you prefer a softer pedal feel, like that Honda? Which one is right? Does one produce shorter stopping distances compared to the other? Maybe, but not necessarily. Obviously, the answer is that...it depends.

It depends on the exact combination of brake setup, wheel/tire size, wheel/tire weight, the weight of the van, how the van is loaded, what booster is used, what pads the calipers (or drums) have, etc. There are many variables.

And you can have a brake setup that "feels" great to your foot and/or brain but does not create the shortest stopping distance. Conversely, you can have brakes that feel terrible but stop the vehicle incredibly well. My new full size Bronco is a perfect example of this. The pedal is super soft and feels over-boosted. There's very little "feel" to the pedal. Yet, that system does a great job of stopping that heavy beast.

Brakes are really complicated. Many different variables come into play when it comes to constructing a really good braking system. While I realize that not everyone has enough experience or interest to be able to describe their brakes any other way than to say they "feel" good or bad, it's really useless to use how they feel as the end all be all descriptor.

And don't get me wrong. I'm definitely not saying that when someone describes their new brake system as, "feels better" that somehow the achievable stopping distance isn't better than it was before, but without some empirical evidence, you are simply going by the "feel" of the brakes. Does that mean you actually have a better braking system? Maybe, but going by feeling alone is not necessarily proof of that.
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[mitch5]

I have an ej22 frankenengine setup. The brakes i have only tested so far from moving the van a few feet forward and backward. I plan to atleast give it a shot on the street and see if i adjust to the feel.

I am starting to believe i may have a faulty out of the box clutch master which is holding me up from street driving. i can barely get the clutch to disengage. The last thing to check is for proper clearance and the arm is actually returning all the way. I have powerbled, bench bled and gravity bled but seemingly still have air

My clutch was previously fine before tearing into the system, i could see a small weep past the master so i decided to replace.

[mathieux46]

Similar to thatbaldwinlife, I have a Smallcar front kit ( Gilrling 60 ) and Burley disk in the back and a BMW booster.

The brakes are simply amazing, the feel is much better than with the stock booster.

Planning the same on my other ( 2 ) vans.

Highly recommanded, no drawback other than on the wallet.

[thatbaldwinlife]

We have the full Burley front and rear kits and the BMW booster. Brakes are amazing, so much better than stock. Pedal feels great, just soft enough at the start but builds pressure nicely for good feel and feedback to keep from locking up if not needed.
We had to go with the GW GPS speedo to fix the speedo cable kink with the BMW booster. Good upgrade.

nate
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1987 Westy
Insta: @Thatbaldwinlife
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[MarkWard]

[markswagen]

l've fitted more of those than l can remember, no one l have fitted them for, has every mentioned anything but happiness, all 4 of our own fleet, have them, l personally wouldn't ever go back to s stock booster.
my customers who are not sure {those that have stick shift vans} l let them drive burni around the block, that's usually all the thought needed.



as for the bouncing needle, move the speedo cable to a different grommet, a bit of warmth from a hair dryer will soften a rubber grommet enough so you should be able to push the end of the cable through it, if there's not an unused hole.
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markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.

619 201 0310

[ZsZ]

I had stock brakes and BMW booster. I went back to stock booster, as the pedal feel was too light and I had to keep my leg "up in the air" doing light brakings.
I think you need to match the pedal spring to the booster.
And I hated the bouncing speedo - it kinked the cable so stilk jumps a bit.
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Zoltan
1.9 MTdi 2wd Multivan (ex Caravelle)
Van since 2006, engine since 2008