| Author |
Message |
wagen19
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2007
Posts: 685
Location: germany
|
 Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2025 11:15 pm Post subject: Re: 1946 VW barn find in Florida |
 |
|
| RUNKLE wrote: |
.
| finster wrote: |
| interesting that they felt the need to centralise the logo pressing, I wonder why? the slightly elevated one follows the good design practice of using the optical centre rather than the geometrical centre. |
I was wondering that myself. Perhaps if it was a little less optically centred, it would have gone unnoticed. I'm going to assume some higher-up, not privy to the finer details in life, had the embossing mechanically centred.
. |
Imo, it´s like this:
First the KdF 303, VW 38 etc. had 2 instruments in the same size at the same "high" level. (harmony, looking good)
While War, the cog wheel logo had about the same size outside diameter as speedo, the centers of both still at same level.
After WW2 the cog wheel was deleted, so outside diameter of VW-logo decreased, but still both centers on same level. (looking good???)
Between April and mid of July 1946 the VW-logo-pressing on right hand side of dash was relocated and centered. (looking better?)
Mid 49, the Exports and 14 A, 15 got the clock, same size and level as speedo. The same style as on VW 303 and VW 38 etc. (looking good again, Standards got no logo)
(probably they, H. Nordhoff had tried around 1948 with a larger VW-logo on dash, similar in size to the large logo on wheel caps 1948 to mid 49, but were not really satisfied) |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
RUNKLE
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2014
Posts: 5850
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2025 11:45 am Post subject: Re: 1946 VW barn find in Florida |
|
|
.
| finster wrote: |
| interesting that they felt the need to centralise the logo pressing, I wonder why? the slightly elevated one follows the good design practice of using the optical centre rather than the geometrical centre. |
I was wondering that myself. Perhaps if it was a little less optically centred, it would have gone unnoticed. I'm going to assume some higher-up, not privy to the finer details in life, had the embossing mechanically centred.
.
_________________
Type 1
1950 Standard - 1959 Ragtop - 1961 Ragtop two fold - 1964 Sunroof
Type 3
1968 Squareback |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wagen19
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2007
Posts: 685
Location: germany
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2025 10:19 am Post subject: Re: 1946 VW barn find in Florida |
|
|
| KTPhil wrote: |
| finster wrote: |
| interesting that they felt the need to centralise the logo pressing, I wonder why? the slightly elevated one follows the good design practice of using the optical centre rather than the geometrical centre. |
Very German to say "but mathematically it must be in the center"; contrast with the Brits: The vertical slats of the classic Rolls Royce grill are not flat. They are ever-so-slightly convex. Truly straight lines would appear concave, which is not a strong look. To the human eye, the convex lines appear flat. So they made the adjustment in the design. |
How to remember and never forget the difference between "concave" and "convex"???
If the girl has sex, her belly becomes convex! Is that international enough? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 35925
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2025 8:50 am Post subject: Re: 1946 VW barn find in Florida |
|
|
| finster wrote: |
| interesting that they felt the need to centralise the logo pressing, I wonder why? the slightly elevated one follows the good design practice of using the optical centre rather than the geometrical centre. |
Very German to say "but mathematically it must be in the center"; contrast with the Brits: The vertical slats of the classic Rolls Royce grill are not flat. They are ever-so-slightly convex. Truly straight lines would appear concave, which is not a strong look. To the human eye, the convex lines appear flat. So they made the adjustment in the design.
_________________
Current Fleet:
- '71 Fastback
- '69 Westfalia
Retired:
- '67 Beetle
- '65 Beetle (x2)
- '65 Bus
- '71 Squareback |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
finster
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2012
Posts: 10076
Location: not far from the madding crowd
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2025 2:18 am Post subject: Re: 1946 VW barn find in Florida |
|
|
interesting that they felt the need to centralise the logo pressing, I wonder why? the slightly elevated one follows the good design practice of using the optical centre rather than the geometrical centre.
_________________
"we're here on Earth to fart around" kurt vonnegut
nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Blue Baron
VW Aficionado
Joined: June 16, 2006
Posts: 28217
Location: Free State of Florida
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: 1946 VW barn find in Florida |
|
|
| Martin Southwell wrote: |
| Plus, because we make comments and ask questions, doesn't mean that we are trying to knock the car, or it's owner. |
I was being pressured into revealing more information both on and off site. This is fun stuff for me because I don't take it too seriously, but it's also a reminder about how nice people can be unrelenting.
I appreciate the analysis Martin. I'm interested in learning more about deciphering front axle and transmission numbers. I've played around early cars, so this is not new, but I'm more attuned to the later ones.
_________________
We are striving for perfection, to make our cars run forever, if possible.
Heinz Nordhoff |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Martin Southwell
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2010
Posts: 1097
Location: Bath, England
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 4:57 am Post subject: Re: 1946 VW barn find in Florida |
|
|
| Blue Baron wrote: |
I'll start off by saying there is a major city between where I live and where the car is located, making my access time extremely limited, but I was able to do some forensics, and will share some of my discoveries.
Many thanks for doing this, as there are many of us who are intrigued by finds like this. Plus, because we make comments and ask questions, doesn't mean that we are trying to knock the car, or it's owner. The truth is that when cars get to this great age, they will have undergone a number of changes, modifications, or re-vamps. Trying to fathom out what is what, is part of the detective led puzzle.
Additionally, this car and it's owner, like myself (& Rod), lived through the 80's, when we had the cars, but restoration was very difficult, and you had to make do with what you could find locally, or through friends and dedicated clubs. There was no internet to help source parts, or metal wizards in Scandanavia to faithfully reproduce the rustsed out panels. So, we fully understand why cars may not today be as they left the factory.
First, I spent time trying to decypher chassis numbers from the information on this site, and from what I understand, 1946 chassis numbers ran from 1-053815 to 1-063796. The chassis number on this car is 1-0624XX.
That makes sense. Did you look at the pre 53 Archives section on Samba? If so, you will have seen what I believe to be this car:
1946 - Chassis No: 1-062470
11A - Standard sedan left-hand drive
Engine No: 1-88665
Body No not quoted
Built: 26-10-1946, Delivered: 07-11-1946, to US Army Exchange Service, Frankruft, and still living in the USA today.
The body number appears to be 118XX.
Again, perhaps not quite right, but not a million miles off the mark, especially if you compare with details of Rod's car, built around the same time.
1946 - Chassis No: 1-063289
11A - Standard sedan left-hand drive
Body No: 11877
Engine No:1-91175
Built: 27-11-1946
There appears to have been work done here. It may be a factory remanufactured car, as discussed here:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...onditioned
Finally, another photo of that lovely offset VW emblem in the dash pod.
For years I've wondered when this VW dash emblem became centred, rather than offset north of centre, as seen in this picture.
Rod's car, of very similar vintage, has it centred, and I'm reliably informed that this change occured in April/May of 46. Are there any other views out there to point to when this occured?
Finally, don't anyone let on I posted this here. This is just between us.  Your secret is safe with us! |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tlambert
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004
Posts: 735
Location: S.C.
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2025 4:39 am Post subject: Re: 1946 VW barn find in Florida |
|
|
Interesting on the numbers.
Hopefully I’ll get to the car in the future. Should be a good show weekend.
_________________
Tim |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Blue Baron
VW Aficionado
Joined: June 16, 2006
Posts: 28217
Location: Free State of Florida
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2025 9:58 pm Post subject: Re: 1946 VW barn find in Florida |
|
|
I'll start off by saying there is a major city between where I live and where the car is located, making my access time extremely limited,
but I was able to do some forensics, and will share some of my discoveries.
First, I spent time trying to decypher chassis numbers from the information on this site, and from what I understand, 1946
chassis numbers ran from 1-053815 to 1-063796. The chassis number on this car is 1-0624XX.
The body number appears to be 118XX. There appears to have been work done here. It may be a factory remanufactured car, as discussed here:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...onditioned
The front axle had no number at all. As 1946 seems a bit of a mystery, could it be a replacement beam, or could it simply never have been stamped?
Here's the number on the top of the trans bellhousing. I have no reference to compare it to. (Or at least I couldn't find one on this site.)
I noticed some cars have numbers immediately behind the right trans side plate. I should probably look there next. I also noticed
an aluminum "lid" on the steering box. When did those run until?
Finally, another photo of that lovely offset VW emblem in the dash pod.
| tlambert wrote: |
Blue Baron. Any chance you or this car will be at the No Dough show this weekend in Port Orange?
I would love to see this and get some details of the 46. |
Unfortunately we couldn't make it, but I hope you have a great time at the show!
Finally, don't anyone let on I posted this here. This is just between us.
_________________
We are striving for perfection, to make our cars run forever, if possible.
Heinz Nordhoff |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Martin Southwell
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2010
Posts: 1097
Location: Bath, England
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: 1946 VW barn find in Florida |
|
|
| Not the whole of Europe, even if I do know what you mean! Thankfully the Soviets didn't get to the West side of Europe, so we didn't have any such cars left behind by them, but had British forces to do that for us with the just post war cars. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
agramer1966
Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2010
Posts: 179
Location: Northern Poland
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 10:15 am Post subject: Re: 1946 VW barn find in Florida |
|
|
| ryans65 wrote: |
I've seen this more and more at the swap meets over the years. Seems like there's a particular type of seller that brings his stash out to show it off more or less and not actually sell anything. Really odd but to each their own.
| DDub wrote: |
| And this bickering is why people give up on otherwise helpful forums. The amount of arrogance on this site is overwhelming. Of all the car related sites I am on this is the worst. I have seen someone ask for a picture of a certain hard to find item and the responder says here's all 12 of mine and none of them are for sale. |
|
Still it's the best forum that exist. BTW your comment on swap meets is 100 percent accurate, specially in "high end" ones. Founded car is amazing, unfortunately in Europe it appears there are only post-soviet Frankensteins left.
_________________
1966 VW1300
1973 VW1302
1979 924
1984 924
Bunch of old Jap motorbikes
Instagram & YT: #agrameroldoctane |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DDub
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 317
Location: central pa.
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 8:28 am Post subject: Re: 1946 VW barn find in Florida |
|
|
| Blue Baron, I too hope you continue. Any early car being rebuilt is a worthy project. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mr. OGPaint
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2010
Posts: 842
Location: Oregon
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 8:23 am Post subject: Re: 1946 VW barn find in Florida |
|
|
Thank you Blue Baron for sharing the car and the details as they've become clear.
Also, to all reading please understand that some posters do not have English as a first language and that along with cultural differences can make the tone of posts sound more negative than intended.
Back to praises...every detail of the find and upcoming build is very appreciated Blue Baron. What an amazing car and an opportunity for us all to learn more.
_________________
https://instagram.com/mr.ogpaint
-
Patrick Hall |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tlambert
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004
Posts: 735
Location: S.C.
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2025 3:31 pm Post subject: Re: 1946 VW barn find in Florida |
|
|
Blue Baron. Any chance you or this car will be at the No Dough show this weekend in Port Orange?
I would love to see this and get some details of the 46.
_________________
Tim |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lind
Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2000
Posts: 10222
Location: idaho
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2025 9:40 pm Post subject: Re: 1946 VW barn find in Florida |
|
|
There seem to be all types in the hobby, but I would say that the cool, nice and helpful people seem to outnumber the other people by well more than ten to one, both online and in person.
Focus on the good, not the bad.
_________________
.
Wanted:
Idaho VW license plate frames or other dealership items.
VWoA literature and early dealership or distributor literature/pictures/information
. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ryans65
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2016
Posts: 1345
Location: Yulee FL
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2025 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: 1946 VW barn find in Florida |
|
|
I've seen this more and more at the swap meets over the years. Seems like there's a particular type of seller that brings his stash out to show it off more or less and not actually sell anything. Really odd but to each their own.
| DDub wrote: |
| And this bickering is why people give up on otherwise helpful forums. The amount of arrogance on this site is overwhelming. Of all the car related sites I am on this is the worst. I have seen someone ask for a picture of a certain hard to find item and the responder says here's all 12 of mine and none of them are for sale. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ryans65
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2016
Posts: 1345
Location: Yulee FL
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2025 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: 1946 VW barn find in Florida |
|
|
| Blue Baron wrote: |
Frankly, I miss the old days when there was comraderie in this hobby rather than cynicism. Thanks to those who have left positive comments! |
I appreciate you posting and agree wholeheartedly that I miss the
camaraderie that used to exist in this hobby. Thank you for posting your friends car and sharing some history. I look forward to seeing it in person at some point!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DDub
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 317
Location: central pa.
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2025 8:29 am Post subject: Re: 1946 VW barn find in Florida |
|
|
| And this bickering is why people give up on otherwise helpful forums. The amount of arrogance on this site is overwhelming. Of all the car related sites I am on this is the worst. I have seen someone ask for a picture of a certain hard to find item and the responder says here's all 12 of mine and none of them are for sale. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Martin Southwell
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2010
Posts: 1097
Location: Bath, England
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2025 8:12 am Post subject: Re: 1946 VW barn find in Florida |
|
|
The value of forums like this, is for owners and enthusiasts to exchange questions and knowledge on subjects like this, particularly as we all share the same enthusiasm, particularly for the older vehicles. If people make claims or describe something that doesn't seem valid to some others, then what is the problem in them expressing their views? It's a forgone conclusion that this will happen on social media.
It's the same in the world of art, historical events, books, etc. Not everybody agrees on detail(s), and these disagreements carry on over the years, with exchange of views going back and forth. There doesn't need to be any heat created in doing this, or to take things personally. The car is an object for evaluation, regardless of who owns it, and once pictures are posted, this will happen, whether expressed here or not. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
finster
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2012
Posts: 10076
Location: not far from the madding crowd
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2025 7:29 am Post subject: Re: 1946 VW barn find in Florida |
|
|
I have to say I support bluebaron and commend him for his tolerance. he has been kind enough to start this thread and post photos of a significant find. he is not the owner of the car and he certainly has no need to convince anybody or 'show evidence' of what this car is or is not.
_________________
"we're here on Earth to fart around" kurt vonnegut
nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
