swingaxle tube end play

[BarryL]

Kudos for not minding to backtrack. I sure hope you find it.

[bugfil]

Thanks Barry, yes I did. I have the transmission on it's side with the axle running vertically. I thought the same thing you did so I pulled it back apart and double checked that the fulcrum plates were still in place and they were. It is apart right now as I contemplate what to do next.

[BarryL]

Did you keep the axles push inward all the time from when you installed the fulcrum plates? If not it sounds like the fulcrum plates fell behind the spades.

[Eric&Barb]

[bugfil]

Thanks for the reply Eric&Barb. I got the bearings from Wolfsburg West. FAG brand made in Korea. They measure the same as the original German bearings I removed from the RGB’s. It looks like the bearings are 72mm or 2.834” and the bore is 71.84 or 2.829”. My measurements may be off and I’m not a machinist but .006 sounds like a very tight interference fit.
The bores in the boxes look good no damage visible on close inspection.
Does this fit have any effect on the axle not swinging or rotating correctly. I believe the axle should fit snugly in the bearing inner race and the bearing od should fit snugly in the RGB bore, which they do, even if a little tight. Is the binding and or non-rotating axle at big lean angles normal or is something out of wack or misassembled. Should the axle itself always rotate with the inner gears or should I expect it to bind at steep angles?

[Eric&Barb]

Bore for the bearing should be a slip fit. Wonder if the bearing was made too big or if the bore is damaged. Probably the latter. Have had to hand machine those to fix them.
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In Stereo, Where Available!

[bugfil]

Well, it didn't take long to run into another problem when installing the axles.
The axle and axle tube move freely in all positions within the flange but as soon as I install the upper inner axle bearing the axle doesn't rotate freely anymore. I expected it to possibly not move not quite as freely in the direction that's perpendicular to the orientation of the axle spade, meaning the direction the fulcrum plates allow the axle to move but it locks up in that direction as if the endplay is too tight. Also the axle won't rotate, with a vice grip on the axle end as a handle, when the axle is leaned out to the edge of the flange. This doesn't seem correct to me.
I am heating the reduction box bearing seat to around 200 degrees with a heat gun but I do have to tap firmly on the bearing to install it.
Am I doing something wrong? There doesn't seem to be much to do wrong here as the bearing is in or it's not. Any ideas?

[Eric&Barb]

Thanks so much for the update!! Great you got it all sorted out!!
_________________
In Stereo, Where Available!

[bugfil]

Here's an update on where I've gotten with the axle shimming and installation.
After looking at, messing with and thinking about the fit and also having the axle tubes on and off 50 times I realized the flange has to be centered perfectly on the transmission; then you get very even measurements all the way around the flange and hemisphere gap. It seems so simply and was the only thing that made much difference in proper fit. It would be very difficult to get the flange lined up perfectly with the trans in the car but with the trans. on it's side and the axle and tube upright it's pretty easy. Snug the flange nuts a little more than hand tight and you can gently tap on the edges of the flange back and forth while checking the hemisphere gap with a feeler gauge. You can get it to where a .002 feeler gauge won't quite slide into the gap all the way around the opening but the axle moves quite freely and no end play!
I bought new plastic daisies and they are slightly thinner than the originals, I ended up with one shim/gasket on the passenger side and two shims on the drivers side. With the old daisies the number was three drivers and 4 passengers. The shim thickness's I used were .012" and on the drivers side .012" and .007".
The shims in the Wolfsburg west transmission seal kit I used had .007" shims and I ordered the .012" shims from M&T manufacturing. I actually ordered the gaskets in two different sizes 0.2mm and 0.3mm but they were all the same size when I got them. Two different colors but the same thickness 0.3mm, which is .012". I'm finally done with the shimming. Next i will install the bearings into the reduction boxes and hopefully get this transaxle put back together.
Thanks Sambanistas for your thoughts, ideas and information. I always find it thought provoking and helpful.

[bugfil]

Thanks for the suggestion Thom, the axles are not installed at this point just empty axle tubes/reduction boxes with lower stub axles installed.

[thom]

One more thing to check: is the end of the axle properly seated in the fulcrum plates?
_________________
-Thom
1956 Single Cab
1957 Porsche 356A Sunroof
1957 23-Window Deluxe
1957 Mercedes Westfalia single cab
1963 Unimog 404
1965 E-Type

[bugfil]

You have all given me good ideas to think about.
Eric and Barb, I swapped the daisies from side to side and the binding is slightly better. almost to the the point where if I had not put a feeler gauge between the flange and the bell I would think it felt close enough. And it may be, but I still can't fit a .002 feeler gauge in the top of either side and can fit .008 on the driver's lower half and .006 on the pass. side lower half with 4 gaskets on either side. I will order new daisies to eliminate that as a possible problem. I haven't swapped the axles yet but will do that tomorrow just to see what happens, Im not sure what I'll do with the information I gain from that experiment though. I'm curious just the same.
BarryL, I did flatten the bolt holes on the flanges the last time I had the trans out a few years ago to fix some leaks but that is worth rechecking more closely.
BonTonRouge, plastigauge might be a quick way to check the fit. You might be right that the suspension probably doesn't compress into the upper 1/4 of the travel very often especially since I'm not off roading this thing like some of the guys I've seen on the internet.
The axle does move freely at level and below.
My super power is overthinking things and I worry that I have too much clearance in the lower half of the bell and no clearance in the upper half.
Does .002 on top and .006 to .008 on the bottom average to .004 overall?
I have rotated all the parts involved to various positions and none of the measurements or binding change with any combination of position changes. I'll keep thinking and welcome any more ideas you may have.

[BarryL]

Did you hammer the retaining rings' bolt holes back to flush with the flat mating surface?

The 6 holes on the outer ring.

[Eric&Barb]

[BonTonRoulet]

[Eric&Barb]

[Eric&Barb]

[BonTonRoulet]

[Eric&Barb]

[BonTonRoulet]

Static angle of the axle tubes IF you are running reduction gear boxes. Yes, it would change slightly with the weight of the engine, however, the up and down motion of the axle tube at the transmission is very small vs. the range of motion out at the wheels.

In other words, use this photo as the "sweet spot" of how your axle tubes fit the transmission with regard to relative angle.

Good Luck!

_________________
Never argue with an Idiot. They'll only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.