H20 injection naturally aspirated head temp test with results

[94touring]

Slight post bump to the up and coming changes. Currently about done installing EFI and will be going to TPS control for the water pump. The water/meth controller is the Harris HPC naturally aspirated controller I posted about earlier on. I have been using an on off switch and controlling the pump output with a basic motor controller. Works great but the advantage of the TPS is I can have the pump activate more accurately and increase pump output however I desire based on throttle position. Bench testing the throttle bodies the TPS at idle is 2v and 5v wide open. This actually won't work with the Harris controller because it actives at 2v, which means it will always be on. Also I don't want it to run at the full 5v or 100% pump output due to duty cycle limits of the pump and the potential to overheat the pump on hard drives pulling gear up grades for extended periods of time. Nor does the engine really need that much h20. The easy solution was just adding a volt controller between the TPS sensor wire to the Harris controller. Dialing down the input signal to a max of 3v gives a 2v reading at approximately 50% throttle and a 3.75v max giving 2v at about 25% throttle. Something between 25 and 50% throttle is going to work perfectly, I'll just have to mess with it once it's back on the road. It will ramp up flow under more load as desired, yet not max out the pump duty cycle. The plan is still build a motor with compression higher than pump gas will allow and toss this efi kit and TPS h20 setup on that motor.

[94touring]

That's a cool spray bar you've made. I don't recall seeing an afr drop with just straight water, but I also didn't test much with it.

[Wreck]

94 what a trip , at least you weren't stuck ,always pays to carry spares.
I sort of tempted fate with you when I mentioned not to have a touring engine that needs WM injection to just run correctly.

I did the 1/8 event but had minor issues with a throwing a belt , I didn't have enough time to experiment . I did one run with the water on, just straight water , it dropped the AFR from 12.5 to 12 . My ECU pulls CHT from a sender (Air intake sender) under the cylinders , so it doesn't read accurately . My times were not consistent (trying different tyre pressures ,launch rpm etc) so not able to check times etc .
When I get a bit more time I'll play with it some more.

Still had a good time , drove 2 hours out to the event . Pulled 183whp ,(PB on that dyno) PB 60 foot, 1.88 on street tyres and 8.48 at 82.5mph . drove home with no major issues . The Ghia is a porker about 1100kg , 2400 pounds.

[94touring]

Nice meeting you too! That 2nd pull I actually turned up the h20 and made 2 more ft/lbs of torque and the same hp. Bfb said he made a lot more without it. We'll have to ponder that one. Now that being said, I'd for sure notice seat of the pants loss of that much power spraying. If anything I've always felt like I gained a little extra. I suppose the small bump on the dyno concurs with that.

[Alexander_Monday]

It was nice to meet you yesterday. Interestingly enough, BFB's sand rail made more HP with the H2O turned off. Something like 168HP IIRC.
_________________
Danth’s or Parker’s Law:
“If you have to insist that you've won an internet argument, you've probably lost badly.”

Alexander_Monday->What were the rings gapped at?
bedlamite->Almost enough.

[94touring]

Here's the latest info. I tried the 4 nozzle approach with a 30cc on each manifold runner. Did a 10 hour round trip drive to the Ozarks and did a dyno day that BFB hosted to test this setup. Used a 24psi check valve to keep it from pulling in h20 under vacuum. It works but not as good as the single 45cc nozzle above in the center of the stacks. Anything more than bare minimum flow gunks up the oil in no time. Evident from my large breather in place of the oil cap. I didn't set it up to flow continuously, just under some load and throttle, but I suspect it would be gunking oil up or on the ragged edge of it. It doesn't seem to cool any better either. So I'll be going back to the singular nozzle, even on the 2387 build.

The trip wasn't exactly uneventful. Lost 4th gear 5 hours away from home and on the final home stretch blew the belt. Grenaded so hard it took off a coil wire and wiped out a water line. Which was probably good because it shut off immediately so there was no time to cook the heads. I carry spares so was quickly back on the road to cruise in 3rd gear. That dyno we used seemed to read off, at least the HP numbers on the cars were all low. I did end up with one of the smoother curves from the ones I saw while I was there, so I'll take that victory. Minimal sidewinder dip with how I did my custom exhaust and tune. A 2276 with fk7 made 108hp and 190ft lbs for example.

[94touring]

[94touring]

Wreck- Running a solenoid in my case probably won't work, because they have duty cycles. If I'm running it continuous for long periods odds are it burns up the solenoid. What I can do however is just get a check valve with a rated cracking pressure higher than what the highest vacuum signal is at high rpm deceleration. The check valve in line now is only 5psi which keeps the tank from pushing h20 out the nozzles depending on how full the tank is versus the height of the nozzles. My plan is relocate that valve just off the pump and a higher psi check valve into the 4 port distribution block that feeds the nozzlss. The idea being the line between the pump and nozzles will maintain h20 in the line to be more responsive when the pump engages.

[Wreck]

you will also need a solenoid valve to stop the WM getting drawn in under vacuum when the system is not spraying ,if you haven't got one already. I used a cheap ebay valve .

[94touring]

[BFB]

[94touring]

Wreck- I have to go back to my day job and out of the country today, but when I get back will verify what size the 30cc nozzles are. I have a micro drill bit kit I got to "clear" the nozzles when I was bench testing and cleaning up tap water gunk. I think the 30cc nozzles from snows are 0.1mm or
004".


I bumped timing up 2° like Torben just mentioned as well. Let us know if you see a difference in times.

[Alstrup]

[Wreck]

I'm in the process of trialing some cheap brass greenhouse fogging nozzles .

I'll place them above the stacks (Injected NA) and see what happens . I've an 1/8 mile event next month , it normal gets warm (+30C) in the day . I'm interested to see if there is any difference in the time/speed etc . Just going to be using straight filtered tape water.

They come in different sizes , I'm starting with 0.004" (smallest) they give a nice fine spray , better than the aquamists I have now . Just need to make one more spray bar ( 10mm square aluminium rod )

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/406032497193?chn=ps&am...1776442415

[94touring]

[oprn]

I have asked this before here but I will try again. Would it not be better all around to inject the water just below the carbs?
_________________
Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old!

[94touring]

Quick update with some info to pass along. I was collecting the h20 that didn't make it into the intakes and running it to a container and then dumping it back into the main tank, filtering it of course. I'm ditching this approach. After pulling things out and inspecting the system after that 4k mile trip, I noticed the filters at the nozzles caught a fair amount of gunk. Appears to me some oil and other microscopic particles find their way through and begin to clog the filters. I certainly don't have this issue on my water injection filters on my rx7. I will just stick with the drain ports at the base plates of the intakes that have a small plastic line that allows the overflow to drip underneath the engine.

[94touring]

I've been doing water injection outside the VW world for a good 8 years now. I'm not so worried about a line burst, or even a pump failure given all the bench testing for duty cycle limits and running the pump nearly continuous for 4k miles the past month. A clogged jet because of their size is a concern, though I think I caused the issue this time with the wrong gallon of water. I just happened to have about 30 gallons of water in the back because of burning man and grabbed a wrong one.

[sidemarkers]

[94touring]

I don't disagree with that. There is risk involved for a long road trip vehicle if I end up doing it this way.