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Chootrain470
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2023
Posts: 145
Location: Simi Valley, CA
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 Posted: Fri May 30, 2025 9:06 am Post subject: Re: Brake Nightmares |
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Here's another update a week later:
1. The van rear brakes work, but with issues. I loosened the adjuster on the wheel that was too tight and resolved that issue.
2. The emergency brake still hardly works.
3. The pedal has a vibration when braking that makes me suspect warped drums. How common is this on new drums? They are Zimmerman drums.
I will be taking the drums off again tomorrow and have a mechanic turn them. I'm hoping that solves my issues. |
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Chootrain470
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2023
Posts: 145
Location: Simi Valley, CA
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2025 10:31 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Nightmares |
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I ended up bending the ‘Z’ shaped portion of the arm a bit and that seems to have at least partially fixed the offset problem at the Star wheel. I could bend more but I’d have to remove the adjusting arm and I don’t think it’s necessary.
On another note, I bled the brakes today and pressed the brake a bunch of times. I took the van for a test drive and have some observations.
1. The brakes are only marginally better than before.
2. The drum on one side got hot to the touch and smells of brake material.
3. The other drum is only warm with no smell of brake material.
4. The parking brake hardly works. I have to pull it all the way and it just barely starts engaging.
The brake drums were put on so that I could barely move the wheel so I’m sure they are tight enough. I’m thinking the ebrake may need tightening? |
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do.dah
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 777
Location: Washington
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2025 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Nightmares |
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| crazyvwvanman wrote: |
Factory VW brake service assembly kit, notice full engagement of lever and teeth.
Mark |
Thank you Mark! (hope you see this.)
Sorry if this comes across as hijacking this thread, but, perhaps Chootrain and I can all learn something here?
When you do the rear brakes, nowadays, do you get the full engagement?
What's the secret? Bend the bar in places to get that full engagement, while not rubbing on anything but the starwheel?
Also, are these rear brakes like American cars, where you apply a little brake pressure and drive backwards a few yards to finely adjust the rear brakes?
I feel that they are, at least they seem to work that way? |
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Chootrain470
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2023
Posts: 145
Location: Simi Valley, CA
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2025 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Nightmares |
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Response from Van Cafe:
"We're limited on the shoes we can source. The preferred brand was SBS. They disappeared during COVID and never came back. Can you make what you received work? If not, let me know, and I will make a return for you."
I am going to work with what I have and hope it works. |
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ZsZ
Samba Member
Joined: December 11, 2010
Posts: 1731
Location: Budapest Hungary, Europe
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2025 10:04 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Nightmares |
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The adjuster lever are flimsier on the aftermarket shoes.
Usually the Z bend on the shoe side is not as sharply bent so the other end is not in the good position.
Just bend the lever to have 90 degree bends, that hepls
_________________
Zoltan
1.9 MTdi 2wd Multivan (ex Caravelle)
Van since 2006, engine since 2008 |
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Chootrain470
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2023
Posts: 145
Location: Simi Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2025 9:54 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Nightmares |
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I moved back to my front brake today. I was able to bend the new hardline to shape and install the new retainer spring and brake hose. Yes!
Tomorrow I should be able to bleed my brakes and finish adjusting my rear brakes. Hopefully all goes well! |
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Chootrain470
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2023
Posts: 145
Location: Simi Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2025 9:19 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Nightmares |
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| After some consideration and taking with an older neighbor, I decided to just slightly bend the adjuster arm and leave the adjuster as-is. If it becomes an issue in the future, I can take another look. I think adding a spacer just ads an unknown that isn’t worth gambling. |
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Chootrain470
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2023
Posts: 145
Location: Simi Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2025 4:01 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Nightmares |
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| crazyvwvanman wrote: |
Factory VW brake service assembly kit, notice full engagement of lever and teeth.
Mark |
I followed that diagram during assembly. I think what I'll do tonight is go through my brakes spring by spring to make sure they match even though I'm pretty sure they do. I still have my old shoes so I may put a tape measure to them as well. I have contacted Van Cafe to see if they have any suggestions.
I am really wondering if the shoes are just a different shape than the originals and that is causing this issue. I may end up just adding a shim to see if it helps. I don't see any immediate issue with adding a shim so long as it fits well and doesn't hit anything.
I'll put more pictures up later. |
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crazyvwvanman
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 10334
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2025 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Nightmares |
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Factory VW brake service assembly kit, notice full engagement of lever and teeth.
Mark |
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do.dah
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 777
Location: Washington
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2025 3:16 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Nightmares |
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| Chootrain470 wrote: |
| do.dah wrote: |
Are you talking about the starwheel lever not being totally on the ratchet of the starwheel?
If so, whenever I've done the drums on these vans, that's the way the lever arm is.
I agree, it seems as though the brake engineers/designers were really hung over the day they drew up the specs, but mine work and do their job despite not being in a spot that I feel is right. |
Exactly this. I am concerned that with brake wear, the arm will no longer contact the star wheel. I am considering adding a washer next to the star wheel in order for it to align better. |
Welp, all I can tell ya, is I've run my shoes to paper thin, and the arm was still engaged as your pics show.
Personally, I wouldn't do anything to try and "fix" it as both you and I see it.
I agree, one would think that the designers would've made it to totally engage those teeth.
My thinking; perhaps they designed it that way for a reason, and I ain't bright enough to see their thinking/rational?
I think you're good to go. |
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Chootrain470
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2023
Posts: 145
Location: Simi Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2025 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Nightmares |
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| do.dah wrote: |
Are you talking about the starwheel lever not being totally on the ratchet of the starwheel?
If so, whenever I've done the drums on these vans, that's the way the lever arm is.
I agree, it seems as though the brake engineers/designers were really hung over the day they drew up the specs, but mine work and do their job despite not being in a spot that I feel is right. |
Exactly this. I am concerned that with brake wear, the arm will no longer contact the star wheel. I am considering adding a washer next to the star wheel in order for it to align better. |
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do.dah
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 777
Location: Washington
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2025 2:32 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Nightmares |
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Are you talking about the starwheel lever not being totally on the ratchet of the starwheel?
If so, whenever I've done the drums on these vans, that's the way the lever arm is.
I agree, it seems as though the brake engineers/designers were really hung over the day they drew up the specs, but mine work and do their job despite not being in a spot that I feel is right. |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52132
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2025 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Nightmares |
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| 1988M5 wrote: |
So, with brand new shoes (max outer diameter) and brand-new drums (minimum inner diameter) the adjuster needs to be that wide to get any resistance?
Doesn't make sense. Sum Ting Wong.
BK |
I am not so sure that the typical brake shoe sold today meets specs size wise. I came close to having a brake failure coming down the long grade west of Jerome. I knew I didn't like something going on with the brakes coming down the grade so I kept my speed really slow, pissing a lot of the people of who choose to drive that road just for the thrill. Once I got home, the next time I went to go anywhere I had no rear brakes as the piston had popped out of the cylinder on one side, even though the linings still had about 75% of their original depth and the drums were well within spec. I considered welding a shim on the bottom ends of the shoes to give a better fit, but ended up just adding the Bay adjusters.
Last edited by Wildthings on Tue May 20, 2025 3:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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tdivan82 
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2023
Posts: 248
Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2025 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Nightmares |
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On some models, VW used a "U" shaped brake clip. On others, it's a "C" shaped clip with a through hole. Some VW models used both.
In the case of stuck brake line, the U clip will pull out usually with not much trouble. The C clip, as shown above, you simply cut the clip and the line is free from the body. That allows you to get a vicegrip on the nut and turn it.
Don't use mapp gas on brake lines. It's foolish to put that much heat into such thin metal. Iron calipers sure, but not the lines. You'll just end up damaging the line.
Everything costs more now after four years of Dementia Autopen, and his Wuhan flu.
_________________
- George
'82 Westy TDI (ahu)
'96 Passat TDI |
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Chootrain470
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2023
Posts: 145
Location: Simi Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2025 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Nightmares |
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| 1988M5 wrote: |
So, with brand new shoes (max outer diameter) and brand-new drums (minimum inner diameter) the adjuster needs to be that wide to get any resistance?
Doesn't make sense. Sum Ting Wong.
BK |
Yes, they are completely new drums and shoes. The other side doesn’t have this issue. I’ll check again but I’m fairly certain all of the springs are assembled correctly. |
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1988M5
Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2016
Posts: 832
Location: Tucson, AZ
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2025 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Nightmares |
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So, with brand new shoes (max outer diameter) and brand-new drums (minimum inner diameter) the adjuster needs to be that wide to get any resistance?
Doesn't make sense. Sum Ting Wong.
BK
_________________
1991 tin top GL
2002 Winnebago Vista. VW VR6 24V Eurovan front clip powered class C 21' RV.
Some BMWs. |
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Chootrain470
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2023
Posts: 145
Location: Simi Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2025 11:15 am Post subject: Re: Brake Nightmares |
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| I am still confused. Is it common to have this alignment issue? Can you see any issue if I just add some washers as shims? |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52132
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2025 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Nightmares |
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| Chootrain470 wrote: |
| What if I put some spacer washers on the adjusting arm? |
I just added the adjusters from a Bay Window bus to the block at the bottom of the shoes and adjusted the shoes up to minimal clearance just like I would do on a Bay when putting in new shoes. I used JB Weld on the threads so they wouldn't loosen up. So far I am happy with the improvement in the geometry. |
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Chootrain470
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2023
Posts: 145
Location: Simi Valley, CA
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2025 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Nightmares |
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| What if I put some spacer washers on the adjusting arm? |
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Chootrain470
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2023
Posts: 145
Location: Simi Valley, CA
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2025 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Nightmares |
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While I’m waiting on parts to address my front brake, I went ahead with the others.
The other front brake hose was done without issues. One rear drum was a real pain but I eventually got it off with a blow torch and hammer. The rear brake hoses were also not an issue.
One question:
My rear brake adjuster seems too long. I am fairly certain that I assembled it correctly. Will this be an issue? I tried bending the adjuster plate a bit but I can do more if need be.
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