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baldessariclan
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2016
Posts: 1971
Location: Wichita, KS
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 Posted: Thu May 29, 2025 7:29 am Post subject: Re: Distributor Seems to Retard on its own....SOLVED |
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| Chinaclipper wrote: |
| Truth be told, that 800 RPM idle seems really low. She burped a bit when it was just starting out. (Wx was about 55° F in the afternoon and cloudy.) After she was warm tho, no skips or stutters off the start, no hiccups, no issues. |
The usual idle speed spec for your current engine/carb/distributor combo is 850 rpm +/- 50 rpm. So maybe try 850 rpm - 900 rpm for your idle speed -- see if you like that better.
And when all else is dialed-in and tuned correctly, any remaining sluggishness while the engine is cold suggests that you may need to adjust/increase the choke a bit -- you generally don't want your throttle lever dropping to the lowest point on the fast idle cam and choke completely open until the engine is fully warmed-up & at normal operating temperature.
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1971 Standard Beetle — fairly stock / driver
baldessariclan -- often in error, never in doubt... |
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heimlich 
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 7428
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Thu May 29, 2025 7:16 am Post subject: Re: Distributor Seems to Retard on its own....SOLVED! |
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It was your idle speed. You had it set to high. When you get close to a 1,000 RPM the mechanical advance will kick in. If you try to time it there it will be difficult as you just saw.
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bsairhead
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2008
Posts: 4407
Location: viroqua wi.
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| Posted: Thu May 29, 2025 6:40 am Post subject: Re: Distributor Seems to Retard on its own....SOLVED! |
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| Head scratching, you change the vac line? Or perhaps get it on better or add a drip leg? I am glad your good just wondering what the original snafu was. |
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Chinaclipper
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2019
Posts: 797
Location: Somewhere in the great Midwest
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| Posted: Thu May 29, 2025 6:26 am Post subject: Re: Distributor Seems to Retard on its own....SOLVED |
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Well, yesterday I just had to give 'er a try.
I checked the timing again, with the light and as per instructed-800 rpm, etc- before I started out:7.5° BTDC; gremlins didn't come in overnight and change it, so that's good.
Started her up, and drove it around for 30 minutes. Went again mostly city streets, ie 35-40 mph, but did get it on the parkway and had it up to 55 mph a few minutes. Truth be told, that 800 RPM idle seems really low. She burped a bit when it was just starting out. (Wx was about 55° F in the afternoon and cloudy.) After she was warm tho, no skips or stutters off the start, no hiccups, no issues.
So, got her home, and of course, I had to check the timing again-with the light, vacuum off- etc etc yada yada yada...
7.5° BTDC. WIN
So, I will call this a win, thanks everyone for the help. Dunno why or how just yet, I suppose it is a combination of a few things but I'm not looking a gift horse (bug?) in the mouth.....
Maybe I could bump up that idle just a bit tho.. After I timed it correctly, of course.... 
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bsairhead
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2008
Posts: 4407
Location: viroqua wi.
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2025 6:38 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor Seems to Retard on its own.... |
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| Chinaclipper wrote: |
OK yesterday I did exactly as suggested.
I set idle to 800 rpm (wow)
I plugged vacuum on side of carb, and set timing with the light to 7.5° BTDC
I ran it up to 3000+ RPM and saw with the light a nice 30° advance! I tried to film it but it just didn't seem to like it. the camera wouldn't show it.. hmmm.
Checked it at idle (800rpm) again and it was right there at 7.5° BTDC.
So all good.
I will try it out tomorrow; and re-check after .
Today and yesterday there was just too much other distractions, and it was raining.. yuck... |
As long as you revved it past all in advance, that sounds perfect. |
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Chinaclipper
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Joined: October 03, 2019
Posts: 797
Location: Somewhere in the great Midwest
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2025 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor Seems to Retard on its own.... |
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OK yesterday I did exactly as suggested.
I set idle to 800 rpm (wow)
I plugged vacuum on side of carb, and set timing with the light to 7.5° BTDC
I ran it up to 3000+ RPM and saw with the light a nice 30° advance! I tried to film it but it just didn't seem to like it. the camera wouldn't show it.. hmmm.
Checked it at idle (800rpm) again and it was right there at 7.5° BTDC.
So all good.
I will try it out tomorrow; and re-check after .
Today and yesterday there was just too much other distractions, and it was raining.. yuck...
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VW_Jimbo
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 10982
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2025 9:07 am Post subject: Re: New Information... Now what?? |
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| baldessariclan wrote: |
| Chinaclipper wrote: |
7) Replaced vacuum. Ide setting still at 7.5° BTDC. Then ran it up to 3000 RPM. Got maybe 15° of advance. Did it about 5 times.... waiting a few a seconds between. Averaged about 15 ° BTDC . couple of times maybe 25 ° BTDC, but it wasn't consistent. Drove around for maybe 20 miles; 55 mph highest, but mostly in-town speeds. Rechecked the timing statically.
 Yup, it had moved, this time advancing to maybe 10° BTDC. |
Both the checking procedure and results you are describing in these last couple steps sound a bit bizarre and inexplicable to me — ??
Trying to break it all down a bit further:
1) Yes, do to the nature of the ported vacuum signal, you should see no change in the 7.5° BTDC timing reading at idle, regardless of if the vacuum advance line is connected or not.
2) However, once you increase the throttle / engine speed beyond idle, you should get a large jump of vacuum advance. For this reason, you need to always check the centrifugal/mechanical advance w/ the vacuum advance line disconnected — very important!
3) With the vacuum advance disconnected and engine speed at 3,800+ rpm, you should be seeing a total advance of 28° - 32° BTDC (i.e. 7.5° idle timing setting + ~22° - 23° mechanical advance).
4) If you mistakenly do the total centrifugal/mechanical advance check incorrectly with the vacuum advance still connected, you should see total advance readings which are even higher than the 28° - 32° BTDC limit, due to the additional vacuum advance present.
5) However, you seem to be describing seeing a widely varying total advance reading of only 15° to 25° BTDC at 3,000 rpm (?) with the vacuum advance line still connected — ??
6) Once again, a static timing reading of 10° BTDC means very little to me, since it is an inherently inaccurate/imprecise method of checking and setting timing. Use the timing light to get an accurate reading of if your timing has changed, and what it now rests at.
Based on the above information and descriptions, the timing behavior you described seems very erratic, and makes no sense to me. However, at this point am still unsure whether it’s due to a faulty distributor, or operator error (or possibly both - ?).
Not trying to be overly critical here, just trying to help. The details in these check and adjustment procedures are very important to understand and follow correctly — otherwise you’ll get no clear idea of what’s going on, and can end up “chasing your tail”… |
Excellent! Very succinct. Follow this!
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There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!  |
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bsairhead
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2008
Posts: 4407
Location: viroqua wi.
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2025 8:58 am Post subject: Re: Distributor Seems to Retard on its own.... |
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| 1 disconnect the vacuum line. 2 plug said line. 3 rev engine till no more advance shows with light. 4 at that rpm set timing at 30 degrees. 5 unplug and replace line, done. |
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baldessariclan
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2016
Posts: 1971
Location: Wichita, KS
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2025 5:59 am Post subject: Re: New Information... Now what?? |
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| Chinaclipper wrote: |
7) Replaced vacuum. Ide setting still at 7.5° BTDC. Then ran it up to 3000 RPM. Got maybe 15° of advance. Did it about 5 times.... waiting a few a seconds between. Averaged about 15 ° BTDC . couple of times maybe 25 ° BTDC, but it wasn't consistent. Drove around for maybe 20 miles; 55 mph highest, but mostly in-town speeds. Rechecked the timing statically.
Yup, it had moved, this time advancing to maybe 10° BTDC. |
Both the checking procedure and results you are describing in these last couple steps sound a bit bizarre and inexplicable to me — ??
Trying to break it all down a bit further:
1) Yes, do to the nature of the ported vacuum signal, you should see no change in the 7.5° BTDC timing reading at idle, regardless of if the vacuum advance line is connected or not.
2) However, once you increase the throttle / engine speed beyond idle, you should get a large jump of vacuum advance. For this reason, you need to always check the centrifugal/mechanical advance w/ the vacuum advance line disconnected — very important!
3) With the vacuum advance disconnected and engine speed at 3,800+ rpm, you should be seeing a total advance of 28° - 32° BTDC (i.e. 7.5° idle timing setting + ~22° - 23° mechanical advance).
4) If you mistakenly do the total centrifugal/mechanical advance check incorrectly with the vacuum advance still connected, you should see total advance readings which are even higher than the 28° - 32° BTDC limit, due to the additional vacuum advance present.
5) However, you seem to be describing seeing a widely varying total advance reading of only 15° to 25° BTDC at 3,000 rpm (?) with the vacuum advance line still connected — ??
6) Once again, a static timing reading of 10° BTDC means very little to me, since it is an inherently inaccurate/imprecise method of checking and setting timing. Use the timing light to get an accurate reading of if your timing has changed, and what it now rests at.
Based on the above information and descriptions, the timing behavior you described seems very erratic, and makes no sense to me. However, at this point am still unsure whether it’s due to a faulty distributor, or operator error (or possibly both - ?).
Not trying to be overly critical here, just trying to help. The details in these check and adjustment procedures are very important to understand and follow correctly — otherwise you’ll get no clear idea of what’s going on, and can end up “chasing your tail”…
_________________
1971 Standard Beetle — fairly stock / driver
baldessariclan -- often in error, never in doubt... |
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heimlich
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 7428
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor Seems to Retard on its own.... |
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Vacuum looks good. It's not leaking down fast enough to call that a leak. You should be getting about 8 to 12 degrees of advance from the vacuum canister. That little movement will make a lot of advance.
From the mechanical portion of the distributor you should be getting 20 to 25 degrees advance from the distributor.
If you set the timing to 7.5 degrees at idle (less than 900 RPM) how does everything work?
No need to buy a new distributor. That one can be rebuilt very easily if it needs it. All the parts for it are available.
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Chinaclipper
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2019
Posts: 797
Location: Somewhere in the great Midwest
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 7:15 pm Post subject: New Information... Now what?? |
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I got my timing light Thursday. It didn't work! I sent it back, new one came today so.....
1) First I checked vacuum. At idle, side port 0 mmHg. AT 1500+rpm, snapped up nicely to 20 mmHg. Looks good there, right?
2) Put a witness mark on the dizzy. Nothings moving...
3) I took it upon myself to remove and clean (as best as I could) the dizzy, and lube the moving plate and lobes.
4) Checked motion of plate with Mighty Vac pump (thx HF) It seemed to be moving fully (I think) with 15 mmHg vacuum, and the vacuum looked like it was holding, maybe s-l-o-w-l-y falling....(boring video-BTW, whey is the darn thing so low quality??)
Link
5) Set the timing at 7.5° BTDC statically. Took off vacuum hose from side of carb.
6) Confirmed setting with light-7.5° BTDC. Good...
7) Replaced vacuum. Ide setting still at 7.5° BTDC. Then ran it up to 3000 RPM. Got maybe 15° of advance. Did it about 5 times.... waiting a few a seconds between. Averaged about 15 ° BTDC . couple of times maybe 25 ° BTDC, but it wasn't consistent. Drove around for maybe 20 miles; 55 mph highest, but mostly in-town speeds. Rechecked the timing statically.
Yup, it had moved, this time advancing to maybe 10° BTDC.
Do I need a new distributor?? Suggestions? I'd like to keep the SVDA format-don't wanna go to a .009 or a DVDA
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Chinaclipper
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Joined: October 03, 2019
Posts: 797
Location: Somewhere in the great Midwest
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2025 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor Seems to Retard on its own.... |
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| VW_Jimbo wrote: |
What is your idle speed at?
What carb port are you vacuumed into? |
Idle speed 900 RPM
Vacuum port Drivers side side of carb
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VW_Jimbo
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Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 10982
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2025 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor Seems to Retard on its own.... |
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What is your idle speed at?
What carb port are you vacuumed into?
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Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13673
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2025 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor Seems to Retard on its own.... |
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If you have a Mexican Bosch 034, you're fine. They are excellent distributors since Bosch made them in Mexico with their tooling. I've restored 100's of them and they have the same internal parts as the German made versions. The specs are the same as well.
You need a Mighty vac hand vacuum pump to check the vacuum canister. The tongue test doesn't work.
Under the rotor is a felt that should have a few drops of oil added every 3k miles. It lubricates the upper points cam on the mainshaft. If you twisted the rotor and didn't feel it pivot against the advance springs then it's possible it's stuck. I see this a lot of distributors I restore. The previous owners never lubricated that wick.
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Chinaclipper
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2019
Posts: 797
Location: Somewhere in the great Midwest
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2025 7:03 am Post subject: Re: Distributor Seems to Retard on its own.... |
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| heimlich wrote: |
| Grab the distributor and try to turn it with your hand. If you can turn it the bolt isn't tight enough. |
Done and did it. She's not able to move when twisted.
| heimlich wrote: |
Disconnect the hose from the carburetor and plug the hole. Set the timing at 7.5 degrees to the right side of the engine at or below 900 RPM. Then reconnect the hose to the carburetor. Go drive it around. Nothing should move when you check the timing again.
If you having a flat spot and you did the timing above correctly most likely your vacuum canister is blown.
Change the condenser out just to rule that out. It can cause issues sometimes.
Check your rotor and inside the cap. |
That will have to wait until I get the timing light. It's coming!
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Chinaclipper
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2019
Posts: 797
Location: Somewhere in the great Midwest
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2025 7:01 am Post subject: Re: Distributor Seems to Retard on its own.... |
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| bsairhead wrote: |
When you suck on the tube,  Do you block off the end with your tongue and wait 10 seconds? |
I'll try it. I assume a good outcome would mean the plate stays in place when vacuum is on, and releases after its off......
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heimlich
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 7428
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2025 11:39 am Post subject: Re: Distributor Seems to Retard on its own.... |
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Grab the distributor and try to turn it with your hand. If you can turn it the bolt isn't tight enough.
Disconnect the hose from the carburetor and plug the hole. Set the timing at 7.5 degrees to the right side of the engine at or below 900 RPM. Then reconnect the hose to the carburetor. Go drive it around. Nothing should move when you check the timing again.
If you having a flat spot and you did the timing above correctly most likely your vacuum canister is blown.
Change the condenser out just to rule that out. It can cause issues sometimes.
Check your rotor and inside the cap.
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bsairhead
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2008
Posts: 4407
Location: viroqua wi.
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2025 11:26 am Post subject: Re: Distributor Seems to Retard on its own.... |
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| When you suck on the tube, Do you block off the end with your tongue and wait 10 seconds? |
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Chinaclipper
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halfassleatherworks
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2025 8:21 am Post subject: Re: Distributor Seems to Retard on its own.... |
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| Did you lube the cam lobes for the points with grease? |
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