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SCM
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Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 3410
Location: Bozeman MT
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 Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:18 am Post subject: For all you using J30R9 Fuel Lines |
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Have you had any problems due to it not being available in 7mm yet? Seems like almost everyone here recommends it but I have heard just a couple opinions that because it's a little bigger (7.9 mm) the J30R9 isn't a perfect fit hence defeating the purpose of replacing your old lines. That makes sense to me but soooo many people seem to be using it.
For those folks using it, did you have to give any special considerations to the type of clamps you used?
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danfromsyr
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Joined: March 01, 2004
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Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:33 am Post subject: |
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no trouble with the hose or the clamps..
and less than 1mm in a rubber you're clamping isn't (IMO) defeating the purpose of replacement. which is to eliminate the permeability of the hsoe from age, UV and volitile additives & alcohols
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RCB
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Joined: September 05, 2005
Posts: 4143
Location: San Francisco-Bay Area
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| The fuel lines I got from greascar is 5/16 I.D. and it fits fine and so far (going on two years) I haven't had or seen any issues with it. The 5/16 has a smaller I.D. than a 7mil but I dont really see it as a problem. When researching the J30R9 fuel lines, I wasn't able to find one in a 7mil I.D. size but that was a few years ago. The fuel line I got from greasecar is made by Goodyear but I know Gates makes one too. |
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seanjenn
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Joined: March 07, 2009
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Location: TAOS
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:49 am Post subject: |
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As for the clamps, just make sure to use quality FI hose specific clamps.
Are there any known cases of the BMW hoses failing? I haven't heard of any.
Wonder how long it would take for these new fuels to eat their way through the BMW stuff.
Mine have been on there for a couple years or so, which is about how often I replace them anyway.
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52494
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| The metal tubes and fittings are right at 8mm so the 5/16 hose is almost a perfect fit. It is snug when it goes on and takes only reasonable clamping pressure. You are not having to over compress or deform the hose beyond acceptable limits. |
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purplepeopleeater
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Joined: July 23, 2005
Posts: 3117
Location: E. Washington
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:54 am Post subject: |
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I got my spool from these guys, http://www.europowerinc.com/cart/index.php?p=product&id=5
You are better off calling them and ordering, when I placed an order online I got a call from a CSR wanting my credit card number again...they already had my info...it was kinda scetchy.
so far no issues.
probably woudl order again, with shipping it was just under $40 bucks for a whole roll, I've done a few lines with it and its pretty decent. |
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r39o
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Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.volksbolts.com/faq/fuelhose.htm
The above gives some nice hints and specs.
Now, as I recall, most Fuel Injected VWs use 8mm piping so hence the use of 7mm hose.
Based on the above URL you want to have hose smaller than pipe:
8mm = 8/25.4 inches = 0.3149 inches
5/16 inches = 0.3125 (7.94mm)
(1/4 in = 6.35mm)
So that is about 2 and 1/2 thousands inches or 0.062mm smaller for the 5/15 in.
(The 1/4 seems too small at 1.65mm smaller, but that is just a guess.)
Is that enough of a friction fit using the 5/16?????
NOTE: For reasons I can not explain, I can not locate metric sizing for the J30R9 standard hose.
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"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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SCM
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Joined: January 26, 2011
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Location: Bozeman MT
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| r39o wrote: |
Is that enough of a friction fit using the 5/16?????
NOTE: For reasons I can not explain, I can not locate metric sizing for the J30R9 standard hose. |
That's exactly my concern. As of now, you can't get metric (at least not 7mm) J30R9 from US distributers. I have a spool of 5/16 right now but was having second thoughts about installing it although I'm getting more comfortable with the idea after hearing from the others.
FYI, I got an email from German Supply that said they're looking into sourcing some 7mm J30R9 but it won't be available until at least this summer.
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'91 Westfalia GL Automatic (GTA "Turbo" Rebuild w/Peloquin) and 2.3L GoWesty Engine |
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danfromsyr
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Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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there are alot more of us running NEW 5/16 fuel injection hose than those running 7mm fuel injection hose.
we are still possibly outnumbered by the hordes of POs who have not yet or ever changed the fuel hoses, causing newly purchased vans to self ignite on maiden voyages. sad sad times.
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r39o
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Joined: May 18, 2005
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Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| danfromsyr wrote: |
there are alot more of us running NEW 5/16 fuel injection hose than those running 7mm fuel injection hose.
we are still possibly outnumbered by the hordes of POs who have not yet or ever changed the fuel hoses, causing newly purchased vans to self ignite on maiden voyages. sad sad times. |
Out of 5 vans I looked at on a tow / salvage lot, 4 were crispy critters.
What does that tell you?
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"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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Wildthings
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| SCM wrote: |
| r39o wrote: |
Is that enough of a friction fit using the 5/16?????
NOTE: For reasons I can not explain, I can not locate metric sizing for the J30R9 standard hose. |
That's exactly my concern. As of now, you can't get metric (at least not 7mm) J30R9 from US distributers. I have a spool of 5/16 right now but was having second thoughts about installing it although I'm getting more comfortable with the idea after hearing from the others.
FYI, I got an email from German Supply that said they're looking into sourcing some 7mm J30R9 but it won't be available until at least this summer. |
I would be way more worried about 7mm hose being damaged by being forced to fit over the swedge (~9mm) on 8mm tubing than that 5/16 hose would either blow off or not seal. The improper OEM fit is probably a reason that these things burn up so readily. |
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syncrodoka
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Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 12355
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| r39o wrote: |
| danfromsyr wrote: |
there are alot more of us running NEW 5/16 fuel injection hose than those running 7mm fuel injection hose.
we are still possibly outnumbered by the hordes of POs who have not yet or ever changed the fuel hoses, causing newly purchased vans to self ignite on maiden voyages. sad sad times. |
Out of 5 vans I looked at on a tow / salvage lot, 4 were crispy critters.
What does that tell you? |
That tells me that the people that leave cars in the tow yard leave them there for a reason.  Fire and cars don't mix well
People that want their cars cough up the $200 as fast as they can get it. |
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randywebb
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Joined: February 15, 2005
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Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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interesting issue
one thing I know for sure - every crack in the fuel hose I removed from my Van (which, BTW, was not the original hose) was in the ends of the hose - where it was over the metal line
maybe that was from the "rip 'em up" clamps a PO used; maybe not
but every hose end was heavily cracked
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/640972-rubber-fuel-hose.html
and... there was no damage to the long middle parts of the hoses that I saw (w/out slitting everyone of them all the way down tho)
there was no debris in the fuel filter I cut open and unrolled either - just a very faint dark area, which did not show any particles present under 7x magnification
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Tooharsh
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Location: Waynesboro, PA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| I posted on another thread too. Just wondering if there is a reason people are not using steel fuel lines? I would think there would be less chance of fuel leaks, but I am a new owner so possibly there is something I don't know... |
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Wildthings
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Tooharsh wrote: |
| I posted on another thread too. Just wondering if there is a reason people are not using steel fuel lines? I would think there would be less chance of fuel leaks, but I am a new owner so possibly there is something I don't know... |
Using as much steel as possible is the way to go, the VW system using easily burnable rubber and plastic lines is totally idiotic. Using steel line from the pump to the engine compartment and for the fuel return back to the tank will greatly slow the movement of a fire forward towards the fuel tank, giving you more time to evacuate the vehicle and to try and extinguish the fire.
On my Suby conversion I have only two short piece of rubber hose in the engine compartment to allow for engine movement connecting with steel supply and return lines that terminate high in the engine compartment, lessening the change of gravity flow in case of a fire. I had a similar system on my 83 1/2 with a WBXer.
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Tooharsh
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:19 am Post subject: |
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So, you mention that the steel would be better in the event of a fire. I was thinking the steel would help prevent the fire from happening. Is there something else that causes a fire on these water cooled Vanagons other than the bad fuel lines?
I think I will try to go steel if I can get the guy who is working on it for me to do that while He has it. |
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Wildthings
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| Tooharsh wrote: |
So, you mention that the steel would be better in the event of a fire. I was thinking the steel would help prevent the fire from happening. Is there something else that causes a fire on these water cooled Vanagons other than the bad fuel lines?
I think I will try to go steel if I can get the guy who is working on it for me to do that while He has it. |
Pretty hard to go all steel on top of the engine itself. You would have to change virtually every part of the fuel system to do so, you would need a different style of injectors and a set of complicated one off fuel rings. I am not saying it can't be done, but few would attempt it themselves and fewer still would be willing to pay someone else to do it for them. Seem like it would just be easier to have a Subaru (or other) engine conversion done. |
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tencentlife
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Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Seem like it would just be easier to have a Subaru (or other) engine conversion done. |
Wow, that's a stretch.
Containing fuel is important, obviously, but most vehicle fires are electrical in nature. The people who stress like frightened children over their fuel hoses do so while bent over a big fat unfused wire that is hanging onto the back of their alternator by a minute wafer of metal. Something Matthew-ish about motes and planks comes to mind.....
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52494
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| tencentlife wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Seem like it would just be easier to have a Subaru (or other) engine conversion done. |
Wow, that's a stretch.
Containing fuel is important, obviously, but most vehicle fires are electrical in nature. The people who stress like frightened children over their fuel hoses do so while bent over a big fat unfused wire that is hanging onto the back of their alternator by a minute wafer of metal. Something Matthew-ish about motes and planks comes to mind..... |
Have you ever seen a WBXer engine where someone has removed all the rubber lines except those that are needed for engine movement? If so I would like to see the pics. |
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tencentlife
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Joined: May 02, 2006
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Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Have you ever seen a WBXer engine where someone has removed all the rubber lines except those that are needed for engine movement? If so I would like to see the pics. |
If that question is rhetorical then I would say you and TK ought to meet up for lunch sometime, you have a lot in common. If the question is posed sincerely then my answer is it's a fairly simple project that's already in the pipeline, albeit at low priority because it's in the category of solutions in search of a problem. But I'm not above delivering goods people only believe they need, as long as it's something that does no harm. Nothing wrong with a little bling-bling.
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Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
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