engine question

[cpc12]

probably a dumb question

what is the difference between a short and long block ?

Different motor ? or just one is complete ?

[Ed Ruth]

When I bought a long block (edit) from Bus Depot it had engine block with crank and cam, lifters & heads, no distributor or fuel injection parts, in fact, no ignition or fuel components, no flywheel. You have to shim thrust yourself. No exhaust components or tin (needless to say), no starter or all those external necessities. But included are valve covers, oil pump (in my case), a couple of gaskets, oil plug but no oil cooler. Necessary studs are included and engine is sealed and torqued (or should be) to specs. You set timing but lifter clearance should be set...but to what?
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We all have problems and so do buses. The universe is, after all, winding down.

[Wildthings]

Kind of like a rebuild verse a remanufacture, everyone has their own definition. Generally a long block would come complete with heads, but a short block would not, while other parts like the crank pulley may not be present in either.

[guitarman63mm]

My understanding is that a shortblock is literally just the engine block bolted together, with the connecting rods hanging out of the case. The longblock has the P/Cs and heads installed. I don't think pulleys/flywheels/shrouds are included in either definition.
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Jimmy

- 1974 Safaré Custom Camper. 091 trans + Dual Weber 34 ICTs + Pertronix SVDA + 1.7L 914 T4 engine.

[SGKent]

short block - case or block, crank, rods, camshaft and lifters, oil pump, pistons usually on water cooled engines. With or without pistons and liners on a VW engine.

long block: all in a short block plus the head(s), pushrods, and rocker arms. Sometimes a flywheel but usually not. Timing gear and chain if designed that way.

Turnkey - ready to put in and run.

[Desertbusman]

Short Block- The engine case (this is a VW only forum) and all internal components. Nothing external of the engine case with the exception of the bare rods protruding out the case cylinder holes.
It will not have pistons and cylinders.


Long Block- Short block with the addition of barrels/pistons, heads, and complete valve train. Complete internals from valve cover to valve cover. Flywheel, oil pump, and drain plate with no other externals. Distributor hole, fuel pump hole, oil cooler holes, head intake and exhaust ports all sealed.
With some builders it may be pre-run and sometimes with the break-in proceedure performed.
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71 Superbug
71 Westy

[airschooled]

I've heard of a few independent builders who install a bad distributor on their long blocks so that if you turn the crank you won't accidentally pull the distributor drive gear out of its orientation and fudge up the works. So if you see a cap-less dizzy on a site, don't assume that it's worth keeping.
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[Desertbusman]

Good point Robbie. The distributor drive is apt to fall out or get messed up without it being held down. On T-1's the fuel pump bakelite mounting flange will also hold the drive gear down. Seems like a long block we once bought had that flange installed for that purpose.
http://www.airheadparts.com/vintage-vw-parts/carbu...-113127303
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71 Superbug
71 Westy

[cpc12]

i love this site

Thanks for the replys

Glad to be here ...

[SGKent]

[Desertbusman]

This is an VW AIR COOLED Forum so that's all we need to discuss. They arn't water cooled, they have an engine split case instead of a block and they are in a catagory all their own. We care less what Chevies or anything else has or how they are constructed or how they are sold.
.
That said, the descriptions and components of our short blocks and long blocks are a different creature than other type engines. Long blocks are valve cover to valve cover but more importantly they are head to head. And the heads secure the cylinders causing it to be a package assembly. Short blocks have bare rods with no pistons attached. For those forgetting how an ACVW engine is assembled you do not install pistons and cylinder barrels until the final installation of the heads. It's either a top end or no top end. Now with a short block there might be variances as to whether head studs are included and/or installed but normally no head studs. As far as the pistons go, if any seller sells a short block including pistons and barrels those items are boxed and shipped separately and also would be expected to be billed separately.

Anyone purchasing an engine or engine components need to know what they are getting. In addition to maybe or maybe not including an oil pump and probably not the head studs, a short block possibly won't include the pressure valves either or even the distributor drive shaft.
So consider the normal short block to include only the components required to be installed prior to the case halves being assembled.

Of course there will always be odd balls and nonconformists doing wierd nonstandard stuff such as thinking this should be the Bay Window Van Forum. And that link to the junk POS barn find short block with rusted on cylinders is a real kick....guess it proves a short block "correctly" includes rusted junk cylinders
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71 Superbug
71 Westy