88mm slip in pistons and barrels

[advinnie]

Hi all I've been offered a set of slip in 88mm pistons and barrels for £60 can anyone tell me how long these will last or if they are any good

[Volks Wagen]

Most of what I've read says avoid 88mm as the walls are too thin. 87mm slip in seems to be the largest slip in recommended.
_________________
1973 1303 with AB-motor - sporadic
reconstruction as time permits, 1986 ex-Bundeswehr Doka - on the road again.

I'm definitely, probably, the worlds greatest lover.

Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile.

[docdanracy]

I have the 88mm p/c set.
Thick walls at top so heads have to be opened up to accept them.
Mine are working great

_________________
Doc
1970 Sunroof Bug Yukon Yellow (L19K)
Custom 6.5x15” 914 Sport Wheels wrapped in 185x65x15 Contis
Empi shifter, full compliment of gauges, 1679 with mild cam, stock induction

SOLD: 1974 Marina Blue Standard Beetle undergoing restoration/preservation
1679 with Kadrons and header/QP
914 sport wheels 5.5" ET40 wrapped in 195x65x15 Kumhos

[Danwvw]

I too went with the 88mm ThickWalls. They should last for the life of the engine because there so thick, thicker than stock.
But if yours are the thin wall piston and cylinders I would think they will work fine but they may burry themselves into the heads and the case a little over time but still should last the life of the engine unless the engine gets overheated. Just run enough deck Height (say 60 thousandths" Clearance between Pistons and Heads) that you can re-torque the heads after 10 or 20 thousand miles.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[advinnie]

[Aussiebug]

Vw never went over 1600 (85.5mm) as the cylinder walls were as thin as they wanted to make them. Remember that the 1300 (77s), 1500s (83s) and 1600s (85.5s) all slot straight into the same case holes - just the cylinder walls, and the sealing lip at the top of the cylinder, get thinner.

1641s (87s) will warp if the engine is pushed - some folks get a decent run out of them - some don't. These have thinner walls than the stock 85.5s of course.

Slip in 88s have even thinner walls, so they will almost always warp at some stage, and the very thin lip at the top makes it hard to maintain a good seal with the heads.

Machine-in 88s are a different story. They are stepped so that they are thin at the bottom and will slip into the stock 1300/1500/1600 case, but have thick walls up the rest of the cylinder, so the heads must be machined (hence "machine-in") to take the larger top diameter. Thick walls means no warping, and there's a nice wide lip at the cylinder top to seal well with the heads.

Personally, I would not bother with the slip-in 88s even if they were a gift, but would be quite happy to use the machine-in 88s.
_________________
Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repairs and maintenance for the home mechanic
http://www.vw-resource.com

[Danwvw]

I have run a couple of engines with the 87 mm piston and cylinders and not had any problem with them. Whats 1 more mm? The thin cylinders 88's would run a little cooler too meaning they would expand less than a thicker cylinder 85.5! The 87 and 88 thinwalls have less seal cross section area which means there is more force sealing them at the heads, think about it! I think people think they warp or something but they should not unless the engine has been totally abused.

Bet the 1679 is a nice little motor, probably has about 20% more power with those Dual Kadron Carburetors and some cam say 284' Degrees or something, Probably had some head work too. If it had a racing valve train and a counterweighted crankshaft it would be quite a nice driving experience in a beetle. It would be able to handle hills any freeway driving conditions all day long.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Volks Wagen]

[Cusser]

You mean that the thin-wall 92mm cylinders that have been in my 1835cc engine since 1986 in Phoenix Arizona won't work well? Shhhh - don't tell my engine....
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297

[advinnie]

Are the thin wall 92mm the same thickness as the thin wall 88mm?

[docdanracy]

I currently make a 180 mile drive on Monday mornings and the return trip on Wednesday afternoons in my '74.
With the 1679cc motor I keep up with the traffic no problem. 70-75mph for 2.5-3 hrs each way.
The new motor will run over 90mph easily now
I used the thick wall 88s, had a good friend machine my heads to accept the larger cylinders. We also did a complete valve job with new valves etc.
Also did some mild porting to match up the intakes and heads.
40mm Kads and Pertronix dizzy/coil.
Bugpack extractor and single QP
Stock internals, 8:1 CR
Run 87 octane with no predetonation
Timing at 32* with full advance

_________________
Doc
1970 Sunroof Bug Yukon Yellow (L19K)
Custom 6.5x15” 914 Sport Wheels wrapped in 185x65x15 Contis
Empi shifter, full compliment of gauges, 1679 with mild cam, stock induction

SOLD: 1974 Marina Blue Standard Beetle undergoing restoration/preservation
1679 with Kadrons and header/QP
914 sport wheels 5.5" ET40 wrapped in 195x65x15 Kumhos

[advinnie]

Whats the acceleration like is it noticeable over a 1600 engine?
And I just wished I someone here in the UK would sell thick wall/machine in 88's all I can find here in sunny England are the thin wall 88mm.

[Danwvw]

I think the 92's are thicker! Thicker than the thinwall 88's probably the same as the 87mm cylinders.
Where you really come out ahead on the 88's is if you add some stroke and it was nice not having to have the case opened up. The 74 mm crank with 88 mm pistons is 1800 cc. The horsepower almost doubles over a stock 1600 in the 1800 with headwork, cam, and dual carbs. etc.
Here is a video of the 1800 cc engine before I put in the bus. CarbsWorkingRightFinally.
_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Volks Wagen]

This guy would prob ship to u

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Kolben-Zylinder-1-7-Liter-s...1596wt_998
_________________
1973 1303 with AB-motor - sporadic
reconstruction as time permits, 1986 ex-Bundeswehr Doka - on the road again.

I'm definitely, probably, the worlds greatest lover.

Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile.

[advinnie]

Thanks for the link but it's all in a funny languish who doesn't speck English these days

[RailBoy]

DanWVW, see that you are in the midst of your engine, like yesterday, saw the video..... Cool..

What all info can you tell us about your 1800....? Looked into them for a while, like the idea of stock exhuast diameter to use heater boxes is my thing, plus nice to be a small stroker(74mm). So, like to check it out...

Also, can you let us in on your build sheet and possible results of it, like HP and Runnings?

Think for the Video, sounds great and clean running like you mentioned, smooth...... RB
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[quote="smitty24"]"HELP, I ported my own heads and now have fire coming out my ass" .[/quote]

[Danwvw]

1800cc Type 1 Engine for 1971 VW Bus.

74 mm crankshaft counterweighted
88 mm (AA) thickwall P&c's (Non stroker type) (Modified piston skirts to fit inside crank for clearance)
Stock 1971 VW Bus Magnesium Case inserted for 10mm studs and taped for full flow oil return (deep inserted #3)
5.325" Racing Rods
Web-Cam 163 Camshaft (.422 valve lift, 284' Duration)
Stock Heads with 3 angle valve grind and port matched with single HD Springs cc'ed for (8.5:1 CR)
1 1/2" Merged Header and single quitepack muffler (Not on Video)
Dual Dellorto DRLA 36mm carbs with 30mm venturi's
Ultra Lightweight Lifters
Stock length Aluminum Push Rods,
Stock 1.1: Ratio rockers on solid rocker shafts with Elephant feet adjusters
Electric Fuel pump with internal pressure regulator
Full Flow oil filter setup
Schadek 26 mm oil pump (running castrol 5w30 motor oil)
Stock distributor and coil
Stock Dog house Fanshroud and fan with VW Motorola Alternator etc.
Balanced Crank, Flywheel and Clutch
Balanced Pistons, Rods
Estimated Horsepower 90 to 100
_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[RailBoy]

DanVWV, what are the out diameters of the 88's cylender's being thick wall? Just wondering, may have an idea on an angle for myself..

So, 1.5" Exhaust, yea when I specked out a 1849, that was required, but was looking at running DRD L3's for better flow....

1800 build, what was your expectations of this with stock diameter exhaust to compare notes?

Thanks, great info, did you get the motor in? RB
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[quote="smitty24"]"HELP, I ported my own heads and now have fire coming out my ass" .[/quote]

[advinnie]

That's all good for you lot over there. You try and find 5.325 rods and 88mm thick wall cylinders here in the UK. Yes I know i could buy them from you lot but a shipping and taxes to them and the price more than doubles. For example aircooled.Net 88mm pistons $169 get them shipped to the UK and the cost then goes to $336.60 then at taxes $403.95 is the total.

[Danwvw]

I would not get too hung up on (AA) Brand 88 mm thickwall Piston and cylinders just run the ones you have or go with (Mahle) Brand 90.5 and open the case up for them. The 88 mm thickwalls do require the heads to be cut for 90.5-92mm. (Bet the Mahle 90.5's are better quality and available to you.)
The 88mm Thickwalls the 90.5 and 92 mm cylinders are all 98 mm on the outside, (I think)
I looked at running the DRD L3's but thought I could save money going with the stock heads I had. I had a problem with a spark-plug hole with them though! (I am still wondering if I shouldn't run some big valve heads) Everyone seems to think that the stock 35.5 intake and 32 mm exhaust valves are best on small displacement Type 1's especially in a bus.
The 1800 in the Bus does have really nice torque, very drive-able. Not sure what the advantage of the 1.5" Merged headers are, I ran the 1 3/8" on it with a 1641cc engine then switched to the 1.5" on the 1641. Made it bog a bit on take off with the 1.5" but did add some power on the highway. But now with the 1800 cc engine the 1.5" headers don't bog on take-off at all. It will take off in 2nd gear with no throttle.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!