Tie rod end taper angles

[Dr OnHolliday]

I'm trying to determine specs on tie rod ends.

What I think I know:

Pre-'68 VW Type 1 tie rod studs are 10 mm diameter with a 17 mm nut;

March '68-on VW Type 1 tie rod studs are 12 mm diameter with a 19 mm nut

BUT do these each have the so-called 7 degree taper (actually 1.5" taper per foot)?

It appears that the 1.5" per foot may be an industry-wide standard for tie rod tapers?

Thanx

PS I'm pretty sure I have the older 10 mm ends on my car as my tie rods each have one end that is non-adjustable / intregal with tie-rods
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1965 Type 1 sunroof Baja / about 70k miles on self-rebuilt '74 1600 and counting / SP heads and aftermarket valve keepers / non-doghouse shroud with external cooler and filter / 1.5 qt extended sump / Weber 32/36 DFAV progressive carb / 009 dist with Pertronix / 1.25 ratio rockers and ball adjusters / 1.5" stainless steel J-pipes and carbon steel baja exhaust

[Dr OnHolliday]

Nobody knows about taper angles?


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1965 Type 1 sunroof Baja / about 70k miles on self-rebuilt '74 1600 and counting / SP heads and aftermarket valve keepers / non-doghouse shroud with external cooler and filter / 1.5 qt extended sump / Weber 32/36 DFAV progressive carb / 009 dist with Pertronix / 1.25 ratio rockers and ball adjusters / 1.5" stainless steel J-pipes and carbon steel baja exhaust

[jsturtlebuggy]

It is what I use, the 7degree 1 1/2 per foot taper reamer when I need to ream for larger tie rod ends.
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Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

[Dr OnHolliday]

Thank you. Yes the Ford and I-H ends are 7.5* for sure, but I think I want to upgrade my ends to the post-68 VW size so that's why my inquiry.
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1965 Type 1 sunroof Baja / about 70k miles on self-rebuilt '74 1600 and counting / SP heads and aftermarket valve keepers / non-doghouse shroud with external cooler and filter / 1.5 qt extended sump / Weber 32/36 DFAV progressive carb / 009 dist with Pertronix / 1.25 ratio rockers and ball adjusters / 1.5" stainless steel J-pipes and carbon steel baja exhaust

[Sandbar Norm]

Hi Dr,
I think that there are two different tapers. Its 7 or 10 deg.
I don't know if the stock VW use the US standards.
Here are some reams for each.
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Search?query=tapered%20reamer
These are what I used, the tie rod ends are used on circle track cars and they are 7 deg. tapers with 3/4" thread.
The alum tie rods come in about any length that you want.
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/AFCO-30212-GM-Tie-Rod-End-RH-Thread,40954.html
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/AFCO-30211-GM-Tie-Rod-End-LH-Thread,40953.html
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Search?query=aluminum%20tie%20rod
Norm

[Nectar1]

What are you looking to accomplish here?

Both sizes of tie rod ends are readily available.

If you're looking to change tie rod ends and ream the steering arm for strength per se you may be better off upgrading the spindle to the '69-ON spindle with the larger stub and forego the reaming.

[Dr OnHolliday]

What do I want to accomplish?

I need new tie rods and ends, my tie rods are old-style 1-piece with ends.
I always consider what economical upgrades are available when i start a project.

Because 7* ream costs at least $90, my cheapest option right now is new or used tie rods (probably reinforced) with pre-68 ends....no reaming. But it allows future upsizing to post-68 tie rod ends.

I'm trying to determine that all vw type 1 have same 7* taper angle. I will eventually buy a 7* reamer because I have american projects that I will install the Ford ends on...
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1965 Type 1 sunroof Baja / about 70k miles on self-rebuilt '74 1600 and counting / SP heads and aftermarket valve keepers / non-doghouse shroud with external cooler and filter / 1.5 qt extended sump / Weber 32/36 DFAV progressive carb / 009 dist with Pertronix / 1.25 ratio rockers and ball adjusters / 1.5" stainless steel J-pipes and carbon steel baja exhaust

[Dr OnHolliday]

Btw - the book "Bajas and Buggies" doesnt list any concerns about installing upsized tie rod ends - is it wrong or out of date?
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1965 Type 1 sunroof Baja / about 70k miles on self-rebuilt '74 1600 and counting / SP heads and aftermarket valve keepers / non-doghouse shroud with external cooler and filter / 1.5 qt extended sump / Weber 32/36 DFAV progressive carb / 009 dist with Pertronix / 1.25 ratio rockers and ball adjusters / 1.5" stainless steel J-pipes and carbon steel baja exhaust

[dustymojave]

Yes, the angle is the same for all of them. Stock early ends are stronger than stock rods. Beef the rods, then the ends are weaker. But still fairly strong.

When you ream the steering arms and pitman arm out for bigger rod ends, you make the wall of the arm around the hole thinner and theoretically weaker. I prefer steering arm gussets which wrap around the end of the arm to reinforce that. This is the pitman arm on my 58 Baja with a 1/4" thick gusset TIG welded around the outside. It could be MIG welded too.

But you could get away with reaming the arms to fit Ford or International ends without a problem. The arms you're reaming and the tie rod ends and the tie rods are all the same as what Jeff was dealing with when he wrote Baja Bugs & Buggies over 30 years ago. Both the Ford and International ends date back to the 1940s. Replacement parts are pretty much the same as then and the Fords are readily available. Nothing has changed that would cause new concerns.
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Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[Dr OnHolliday]

Thank you!
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1965 Type 1 sunroof Baja / about 70k miles on self-rebuilt '74 1600 and counting / SP heads and aftermarket valve keepers / non-doghouse shroud with external cooler and filter / 1.5 qt extended sump / Weber 32/36 DFAV progressive carb / 009 dist with Pertronix / 1.25 ratio rockers and ball adjusters / 1.5" stainless steel J-pipes and carbon steel baja exhaust

[wildgoose]

Does anyone really know the angle of post 68 tie rod end? they are not close to the 7 degree common taper reamer .

I see many postings that people are using the 7degree taper when reaming the spindles for the larger tie rod end---- BUT it is NOT the correct angle the correct angle is almost 6 degrees, most folks do not seem to know or care .

Can anyone help with a source for the CORRECT reamer??

Thanks

dick

[jeremyrockjock]

I used a 5 degree on my 67 bus spindles and it fit perfect
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Why buy what you can build.
Step away from the fiberglass and no one gets hurt!!

[Vanillagurilla]

Heim joint and don't worry about it?