BFG all-terrains in the snow?

[michaeltag]

I have an '87 Syncro that I will soon be taking to the snow for the first time to test out the new Propex heater! I have a moderate amount of experience in the snow for a Californian, including with my '64 Beetle and with two different 4Runners.
My Syncro has a locking rear diff and a decoupler and 15" wheels with BFG AT 215/75-15 tires. How are they in the snow? It's been getting above freezing everyday up there, so I'll be watching for ice at night.

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'87 Vanagon GL Westfalia Syncro w/ rear locker
• 1.8T engine conversion from Stephan's AutoHaus
• Schwenk Springs, OME shocks, BFG All Terrains on South African 15-inch steel wheels
• GoWesty Plate Steel Bumpers w/ front skid plate & rear swing-away spare carrier
• Big Shot Shifter
• Transaxle rebuilt with taller heavy-duty 4th gear, GoWesty decoupler and oiler plates by Ken at Porter's Precision
* TruckFridge
• Propex Heater
• Vintage Air in-dash A/C

[bobbyblack]

My 2WD with 195-14s has moderate snow ability. But, its all in how you drive it. I can get through stuff there is no way my kid can. I admit, she knows only tentatively that the 2WD is really only a 1WD if you spin the other.

From other mentions on this forum, tho, I see many mentions that the BFG ATs are mediocre at best, by opinions I respect.

With that Syncro setup, I am guessing the tires you have will be just fine tho.

Good skill beats good luck, btw
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[Stephan Schmidt]

[GWTWTLW]

I've never had any problems getting anywhere with my BFG's in the snow. I will usually air down a tad and use my decoupler/solid shaft. I tried my hardest to get stuck in the last snowstorm we had and for the life of me I couldn't. Got some good stink-eye though!
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89 Syncro Westy - GW 2.5, now with a double knob job
@gwtwtlw

[DenverB]

They aren't as good as you think they are going to be.

I know that's not helpful really, but expect that you won't get as good of traction in the snow as you would with regular road tires -- chunky tread is great, but it also means less contact with the road.

Not a vanagon, but i've got the BFGs on eurovans and they do worse than general all-season tires do in wet, slippy snow. I run winter tires (michelin x-ice and nokian studded) on most of my EVs and they are bomber.

that said, you've got a syncro. You're fine!
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'77 Transporter/camper (Bussy - Reef Blue/Pastel White)
'67 bug (Santos - VW Blue)
'84 Vanagon Westfalia (Pink Flamingo - Pastel White/Pink)
'88 Vanagon GL Westfalia (Frankie Says - Wolfram Gray)
'02 Eurovan Weekender (Green Apple)
'95-'03 Eurovan full campers and weekenders (rental fleet)
'84 -'91 Vanagon full campers and weekenders (rental fleet)
'72 Porsche 914 (Greta - RIP)

www.RockyMountainCampervans.com

[Howesight]

I have lots of experience driving in the snow. We get a fairly wet snow here in Coastal BC. My BFG AT tires are utter crap on any incline. I can go up the incline, with tires slipping a bit, but once trying to stop on any significant incline, if the snow is wet, the vehicle slides down the hill like a toboggan. In those conditions, I needed to pump the brakes, sliding backwards, and try to keep the Syncro more or less on the logging road with steep, deadly slopes on both sides of the road. Skill and (mostly) luck kept me from deadly disaster.

In dry powder, the experience is different and these tires are not so bad. How often can you control what type of snow you are in?

In short, go for true winter tires like the Nokian Hakkapellitta or similar and you will keep that Syncro out of the ditch.
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'86 Syncro Westy SVX

[candyman]

Ill echo what others have said. The bfgs suck in snow. We get a TON of snow here and i use my 2wd vanagon with studdd hakkas and two sand bags in the rear. That rig does amazing. My Syncro with the bfgs does fine and has not gotten stuck yet but, does slide easily like howesight pointed out. With vc and sometimes using the rear diff lock, it gets the job done. Interestingly, my last set was the general grabbers, which have an almost identical tread pattern, and they rocked it in the snow. Maybe the rubber was softer?

[Syncro Jael]

Dedicated winter tires, mud tires, road tires, are the best way to go. An all terrain tire is a compromise between all of these. You will get a different response from many people on the same tire.

Those are great AT tires, but you will eventually find their shortcomings when you drive in different surfaces.

I've always gone with aggressive treads but now I like quiet on the road and am willing to except less performance on varying conditions.

Just take recovery gear. It makes up for tire choices.
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1987 Syncro Westfalia Hightop - NAHT
Subaru EJ25 Forged Frankenmotor, Triple Knob.
Jael = (Mountain Goat)

[raoul mitgong]

Have 195 R14 BFGs and have used them on my 2wd and my Syncro.
I got stuck in my cul de sac with them on my 2wd. Swapped over to my 15" Blizzaks that same day and no problem. I really didn't think they were that bad in the snow until then as they mostly lived on my Syncro.

BFG ATs will get you just about anywhere with your Syncro but it is the stopping you should really be concerned about. Highway driving in snow is a lot of what my vans see so I now take off the BFGs in the winter because I believe it is safer.

If snow is a rare thing for you, I would run the BFGs but drive accordingly. Silly to have a dedicated set of snow tires aging in the corner of your garage.

My wife hates it, but I always test the conditions when it snows/freezes by seeing how readily the tires brake loose (where appropriate of course). See if I can spin a tire leaving a gas station or hit the brakes at slow speed when no other cars are around (or trees, slopes, or ditches, etc.).

-d
_________________
84 Westy with a 2.1 (Groover)
86 Tintop Syncro (Crow)
86 Tintop Syncro to Westy project (Tom Servo)
91 Westy (Only the top 12 inches of this van (a burn victim))

[Gruppe B]

In the frozen tundra of Northwestern Ontario, BFG KOs that are on my 1985 are strictly summer tires. If there is a mix of cold weather and snow the KOs are too hard a compound for any grip.

However with a locking Syncro you should be able to move somewhat..

[raoul mitgong]

Get some cable chains. They are cheap. Real chains might not clear with your tires. I have fit real chains to some 215/65r15s but they were close.

Stuck on Vail Pass during a spring storm:

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84 Westy with a 2.1 (Groover)
86 Tintop Syncro (Crow)
86 Tintop Syncro to Westy project (Tom Servo)
91 Westy (Only the top 12 inches of this van (a burn victim))

[SCM]

And yet another vote for "meh".

I have BFGs on the Westy and on my 4WD Nissan Pathfinder. Anytime I need to drive to the ski hill on a powder day I swap cars for my wife's Jetta Wagon with Hancook Icepike studded tires. That thing is surprisingly capable in anything under 8" or so.
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'91 Westfalia GL Automatic (GTA "Turbo" Rebuild w/Peloquin) and 2.3L GoWesty Engine

[davevickery]

I've run through a couple sets of those original AT KO tires you have there. The type of snow makes a lot of difference for those tires. I used them year round on my syncro and never wished I had pure winter tires. The conditions here are probably not much different from California, in that you drive up into the mountains and get snow, but the desert will be completely snow free and in town there are rarely snow covered roads.

In off road snow, the tires are very good. I've plowed through 12+ inches of fresh snow over a crunchy layer no problem. And old crunchy snow off road is fine too. Fresh snow on the road usually they also do fine. It is on ice when you can get stuck. Or a fresh layer of snow over ice even in a flat ski parking lot, if you spin down to the ice and stop, you might need a little push. I never needed chains with the syncro, but I used those tires on a 2wd van too and cable chains were very helpful, they are low profile and aren't too bad to drive on and give enough extra traction to get through the icy sections. It sucks to have to put chains on though, so you really only carry them for emergencies.

The new model of that tire, the KO2 is noticably better in snow. It still does the worst on pure ice, but better than before by a fair amount. Nothing is going to be as good as dedicated snow tire, but on a syncro, an AT tire is a good compromise and the BFG does well enough that you can get by in the winter and not have to swap tires all the time.

In comparison to a lot of the other All Terrain tires that fit a syncro, the BFG is better than some, and about equal to several others I've tried. Overall I think it is a good choice. The only tire I would switch to would be the new KO2 version or a dedicated snow tire on a separate set of rims that I could swap out depending on the weather. But that is a far back 2nd choice to running only one set of tires here in Colorado.

[Colorado Yeti]

I am going to have to respectfully disagree with most of the reviews above. I have the exact same size BFG's on my 2wd Westfalia for four years and I am thrilled with their performance on ice / snow. Granted, we do not get the amount of snow here that some people have described above, but I have definitely given my van a workout in winter conditions in Colorado & Wyoming both on & off road since I have owned it and these tires have never let me down. After you take your van out for a jaunt, get back on this thread and tell us what you think of them.

I just bought a new set of the BFG TKo2's for my 2005 Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited and they are absolutely stellar snow tires. Granted, these are the the brand new release "TKo2" edition tires that were modified specifically for winter performance. Look for the little snowflake on the side of the tire. I also have them on my '76 Jeep CJ7 Renegade......so I'm a fan to say the least.

[Yondermtn]

I'm surprised to see the reports of poor performance.
I've only had the BFGs on my Vanagon for a few months and don't drive in snow.
I have had BFGs on my Wrangler for 13 years and they've always been great in the snow. I just got the KO2s this past fall and they seem even better.
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1977 Westfalia 2.0FI 4spd
1990 Multivan 2.1 Auto

[newfisher]

Same. LOVE my BFG KO2s in the snow when aired down ( as all tires should when in the snow or off road). I have the KM2s on the Pinzgauer and they are great in the snow, but an unfair bias as they are on a Pinz.

2x vanagon, heavily loaded KO2 new design aired down to 18 on packed surface has been great. I have a set of Toyo Studded tires on rimes , but didnt switch in time and was caught out in the white stuff. BFGs did great!

[raoul mitgong]

And there you have it. All clear?

Differences are likely due to perspective. If I hadn't had a back to back comparison of the BFG KOs with Blizzaks in a 2wd on the same day and same conditions, I would likely not be as far to the side of "not so good in the snow".
Might not be a fair comparison against a dedicated snow tire where others are likely comparing to other AT tires or all season tires. (Rubber on the Blizzaks feels like foam compared to the rock hard BFGs. The extra sipes give many times more edges to catch too.)

For me, it was down to safety, I have two young children in my vans daily. My vans do more snow than hard off-roading (where Newfisher's perspective seems, and whose advice I respect). I've never aired down for a trip up the interstate to a ski resort. And, if I can afford to drive a Syncro, I should be able to afford $400 worth of snow tires. Mine is not everyone's solution so don't think I'm pushing my perspective. Just a data point for your information. Beautiful Syncro by the way.

-d
_________________
84 Westy with a 2.1 (Groover)
86 Tintop Syncro (Crow)
86 Tintop Syncro to Westy project (Tom Servo)
91 Westy (Only the top 12 inches of this van (a burn victim))

[Syncro Jael]

If you have never had a dedicated snow tire on your van or 4wd. Then you need to experience the difference before commenting how well your AT tire is in snow. My Toyo AT2's are ok in snow, but no comparison to a winter studless tire or studded tire.

Just as a comparison my wife's new Jeep Cherokee came with the Firestone Destination A/T tires. She thought they were great when the snow came. I bought her a set of Nitro SN2 studless winter tires for this winter. Day and Night difference. I drove it after we had an 18" snowstorm and they were unstoppable compared to the ATs.

The vehicle can actually stop on ice now too instead of the anti lock brakes pulsating as you coast along. If you read reviews many will tell you the Firestone tires are great in snow. Just like the BFG's.

I have always had a separate set of dedicated tires on my wife's Audi. Now that she drives a Jeep, same again.

There is no comparison, end of story.

If you have the funds, live where it is winter, then get some winter tires.
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Hightop - NAHT
Subaru EJ25 Forged Frankenmotor, Triple Knob.
Jael = (Mountain Goat)

[Colorado Yeti]

Well said above, especially about if you have the funds. Not sure about you, but I sure don't have an extra $1000 + funds laying around to buy extra set of Blizzaks & rims for my van that maybe see's 4000 miles a year (most in the summer). So I really, really, really love my BFG's. Different strokes for different folks.

[newfisher]

I mentioned I love my BFGs in the snow. I was trying to stay true to the thread but hinted in my post about not getting my Toyosl studded tires mounted on wheels switched over in time. Syncro Jael is 3,000% correct. There is absolutely night and day , black and white difference between an AT tire in the snow and a dedicated siped, soft block compound studded tire set at all 4 corners. The van handles like its on mid summer Phoenix asphalt with the studs on.
So, do the BFGs work? Is your driving skill in snow and ice up to par? Do you have a Peliquin, a soft brake foot down hill? There are tons of combi ations to say they are good or bad, it all depends on the combo of driver skill, comfort, vehicle set up, weight, conditions of snow (fresh pow or packed ice crap) and terrain.

Dedicated snow tires are the cats meow.

Most large cities with a big craigslist population have an abundance of LesSchwab or Tire store chain mounted 16" steel wheels and upper end tires with 1 season on them usually in the summer when people are cleaning out there garage for $100-$150. Im not saying that the Honda/ Subaru 5x115 pattern should be slightly touched with a file and when lug torqued to 115lbs will shape the conical seated area, but I have heard of this being done on several vans with several seasons of use and even having said tire shops rotating them mid season for free and not catching the mod.....just sayin