| Author |
Message |
pamchuck
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2012
Posts: 11
Location: Lanesville, Indiana
|
 Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:03 pm Post subject: Which cylinder heads? CB, Mofoco, Steve Tims, others? |
 |
|
I'm building a 84 x 90.5 engine with an Engle FK8, 5.5 H beam rods, etc.
Carbs are undecided at this time.
I am trying to decide which heads to go with now. My goal is 150HP.
I am looking at the CB 044 Magnum Plus with 42x37.5, the Mofoco 050 with 42x37.5 and the Steve Tims Stage 1 plus with the 42x37.
All of the heads are about the same price for the pair, $785, $809, and $720.
What would be the best choice for the street in a bug?
What is everyone's opinion on these heads?
This will be going in a weekend car and not daily driven.
Thanks for any input. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Coyotemutt
Samba Member
Joined: June 16, 2017
Posts: 360
Location: Pecos, New Mexico
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:18 pm Post subject: Re: Which cylinder heads? CB, Mofoco, Steve Tims, others? |
|
|
Dont bother with DRD heads. That's for sure.
They worked okay for a while but the valve guides got loose quickly despite having good valve geometry. I suspect alot of other heads flow better too.
For the price the MOFOCO heads look great. I'm going to try a set of Rassers here soon. I cant say more than that though. Looking forward to the replies that come. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Alstrup
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 7825
Location: Videbaek Denmark
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Which cylinder heads? CB, Mofoco, Steve Tims, others? |
|
|
DRD is not around anymore, but his versions of CNC ported heads can (sadly) still be bought through Empi.
044 super Mags will not support 150 hp out of the box with the combo you state. Mofo 050´s will - barely - do it. Tims, no problem. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mcmscott
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2010
Posts: 4925
Location: sanger ca
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: Which cylinder heads? CB, Mofoco, Steve Tims, others? |
|
|
If you order from Timms, be prepared to wait. I had a pair of heads there for close to 4 months with out even being looked at, they went to another shop.
_________________
There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,
68 Ghia
67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
07 Nomad
05 f-250 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bugguy1967
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008
Posts: 4368
Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:46 pm Post subject: Re: Which cylinder heads? CB, Mofoco, Steve Tims, others? |
|
|
I'm partial to CB. I'd suggest Panchitos for a 150hp target. 42x37 valves aren't required for 150.
_________________
"A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dan Ruddock
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012
Posts: 3668
Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:32 am Post subject: Re: Which cylinder heads? CB, Mofoco, Steve Tims, others? |
|
|
| The Tims clan have had health issues and are now back to being productive. I just picked up at their shop a set of seats and guides new gen 42x37.5 AA 501 casting ready for me to port to a new configuration the I will reveal latter. Be patient with them. Dan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ohio Tom
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2006
Posts: 1662
Location: Marshallville Ohio
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:51 am Post subject: Re: Which cylinder heads? CB, Mofoco, Steve Tims, others? |
|
|
I vote CB Perf.
They use single groove valves/keepers. They are way better.
And CB heads flow numbers.
Even the Panchito will make 150hp easy.
Get a CNC ported head and the sky is the limit. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002
Posts: 4394
Location: Brew City
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:43 am Post subject: Re: Which cylinder heads? CB, Mofoco, Steve Tims, others? |
|
|
| pamchuck wrote: |
I'm building a 84 x 90.5 engine with an Engle FK8, 5.5 H beam rods, etc.
Carbs are undecided at this time.
I am trying to decide which heads to go with now. My goal is 150HP.
I am looking at the CB 044 Magnum Plus with 42x37.5, the Mofoco 050 with 42x37.5 and the Steve Tims Stage 1 plus with the 42x37.
All of the heads are about the same price for the pair, $785, $809, and $720.
What would be the best choice for the street in a bug?
What is everyone's opinion on these heads?
This will be going in a weekend car and not daily driven.
Thanks for any input. |
DISCLAIMER----I OWN MOFOCO
Now, first you need to decide what you are going to run for carbs and exhaust. The heads, cam, carbs and exhaust all have to match. Personally, I wouldn't run any of the heads you listed for your combo. I would run a 40mm x 35.5mm head with 1 1/2" exhaust and genuine weber 44IDF's. With that being said, the best choices from the manufacturers listed above would be the Panchito, Tim's stage 1 and my 050 Rassers. Honestly, all of those choices will give you a great motor; it just depends on what details you want. CB is made Brazil, Tims are China and Mine are Made in the USA. They all flow, "comparably" which means one flows more and some lifts, another flows more at another lift, etc. Personally, I believe my heads stand above the others with the strength of the castings and the increased cooling ability.
If you have any specific questions, feel free to fire away. If not, sounds like no matter what way you go, you will have a great weekend fun motor.
_________________
Please "LIKE" us on facebook to see what we are working on.
https://www.facebook.com/mofoco?ref=ts&fref=ts
www.mofoco.com
Cylinder Head Reference Sheet |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23950
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:48 am Post subject: Re: Which cylinder heads? CB, Mofoco, Steve Tims, others? |
|
|
| eye would go with the cb lostpan of cheetos, or the cb mini wedges. cnc chambers option on the cheetos.I would also put in the 42mm intakes in the seats that are in the heads and profile the seats to the port.tit retainers too and a set of hpmx 44's and 1.3 ratio rockers, possiably 1.4 if your springs can handle it. .058 pushrods from cb too. along with the big beef intakes to match the heads. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DerrickfromNC1
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2008
Posts: 1400
Location: North Carolina
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:00 am Post subject: Re: Which cylinder heads? CB, Mofoco, Steve Tims, others? |
|
|
| [email protected] wrote: |
| pamchuck wrote: |
I'm building a 84 x 90.5 engine with an Engle FK8, 5.5 H beam rods, etc.
Carbs are undecided at this time.
I am trying to decide which heads to go with now. My goal is 150HP.
I am looking at the CB 044 Magnum Plus with 42x37.5, the Mofoco 050 with 42x37.5 and the Steve Tims Stage 1 plus with the 42x37.
All of the heads are about the same price for the pair, $785, $809, and $720.
What would be the best choice for the street in a bug?
What is everyone's opinion on these heads?
This will be going in a weekend car and not daily driven.
Thanks for any input. |
DISCLAIMER----I OWN MOFOCO
Now, first you need to decide what you are going to run for carbs and exhaust. The heads, cam, carbs and exhaust all have to match. Personally, I wouldn't run any of the heads you listed for your combo. I would run a 40mm x 35.5mm head with 1 1/2" exhaust and genuine weber 44IDF's. With that being said, the best choices from the manufacturers listed above would be the Panchito, Tim's stage 1 and my 050 Rassers. Honestly, all of those choices will give you a great motor; it just depends on what details you want. CB is made Brazil, Tims are China and Mine are Made in the USA. They all flow, "comparably" which means one flows more and some lifts, another flows more at another lift, etc. Personally, I believe my heads stand above the others with the strength of the castings and the increased cooling ability.
If you have any specific questions, feel free to fire away. If not, sounds like no matter what way you go, you will have a great weekend fun motor. |
Roy....about a year ago you mentioned an all new 050 coming out. Any dates and info on the this head available? I’m looking at upgrading heads on a 84*92tw motor in about 3-6mths.
Thanks,
Derrick |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dan Ruddock
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012
Posts: 3668
Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:05 am Post subject: Re: Which cylinder heads? CB, Mofoco, Steve Tims, others? |
|
|
| Ohio Tom wrote: |
I vote CB Perf.
They use single groove valves/keepers. They are way better.
And CB heads flow numbers.
Even the Panchito will make 150hp easy.
Get a CNC ported head and the sky is the limit. |
Nothing wrong with three groove as long as the keepers have been modded. Dan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
andy198712
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2010
Posts: 1209
Location: Cornwall - UK
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:16 am Post subject: Re: Which cylinder heads? CB, Mofoco, Steve Tims, others? |
|
|
| Dan Ruddock wrote: |
| Ohio Tom wrote: |
I vote CB Perf.
They use single groove valves/keepers. They are way better.
And CB heads flow numbers.
Even the Panchito will make 150hp easy.
Get a CNC ported head and the sky is the limit. |
Nothing wrong with three groove as long as the keepers have been modded. Dan |
As in gapped to ensure proper engagement or?
Cheers
_________________
| Alstrup wrote: |
| I like 5,5inchers in the rear at least. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002
Posts: 4394
Location: Brew City
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:35 am Post subject: Re: Which cylinder heads? CB, Mofoco, Steve Tims, others? |
|
|
| DerrickfromNC1 wrote: |
| [email protected] wrote: |
| pamchuck wrote: |
I'm building a 84 x 90.5 engine with an Engle FK8, 5.5 H beam rods, etc.
Carbs are undecided at this time.
I am trying to decide which heads to go with now. My goal is 150HP.
I am looking at the CB 044 Magnum Plus with 42x37.5, the Mofoco 050 with 42x37.5 and the Steve Tims Stage 1 plus with the 42x37.
All of the heads are about the same price for the pair, $785, $809, and $720.
What would be the best choice for the street in a bug?
What is everyone's opinion on these heads?
This will be going in a weekend car and not daily driven.
Thanks for any input. |
DISCLAIMER----I OWN MOFOCO
Now, first you need to decide what you are going to run for carbs and exhaust. The heads, cam, carbs and exhaust all have to match. Personally, I wouldn't run any of the heads you listed for your combo. I would run a 40mm x 35.5mm head with 1 1/2" exhaust and genuine weber 44IDF's. With that being said, the best choices from the manufacturers listed above would be the Panchito, Tim's stage 1 and my 050 Rassers. Honestly, all of those choices will give you a great motor; it just depends on what details you want. CB is made Brazil, Tims are China and Mine are Made in the USA. They all flow, "comparably" which means one flows more and some lifts, another flows more at another lift, etc. Personally, I believe my heads stand above the others with the strength of the castings and the increased cooling ability.
If you have any specific questions, feel free to fire away. If not, sounds like no matter what way you go, you will have a great weekend fun motor. |
Roy....about a year ago you mentioned an all new 050 coming out. Any dates and info on the this head available? I’m looking at upgrading heads on a 84*92tw motor in about 3-6mths.
Thanks,
Derrick |
Well, yeah sort of. The ported versions of the 050 Rassers are part of the 2180cc in my car. I have flow numbers but haven't released them. I am soooooo close to having it ready to dyno but of course everyone keeps ordering motors and heads for me to work on 
Since I am tired of some people on here whining and complaining about things they don't understand(namely my heads), I am waiting until I have flow numbers and actual HP torque numbers before releasing them. MAYBE I will even have some 1/8 mile time slips too. I am running a full bodied 1970 beetle, an HP-1 transmission with stock 1-3 and a 4.12; the 1/4 mile numbers won't be anything special.
_________________
Please "LIKE" us on facebook to see what we are working on.
https://www.facebook.com/mofoco?ref=ts&fref=ts
www.mofoco.com
Cylinder Head Reference Sheet |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dan Ruddock
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012
Posts: 3668
Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:44 am Post subject: Re: Which cylinder heads? CB, Mofoco, Steve Tims, others? |
|
|
| andy198712 wrote: |
| Dan Ruddock wrote: |
| Ohio Tom wrote: |
I vote CB Perf.
They use single groove valves/keepers. They are way better.
And CB heads flow numbers.
Even the Panchito will make 150hp easy.
Get a CNC ported head and the sky is the limit. |
Nothing wrong with three groove as long as the keepers have been modded. Dan |
As in gapped to ensure proper engagement or?
Cheers |
Ground so the keepers don’t touch each other. I include already ground keeper in my beehive spring kits. Dan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ohio Tom
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2006
Posts: 1662
Location: Marshallville Ohio
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:20 am Post subject: Re: Which cylinder heads? CB, Mofoco, Steve Tims, others? |
|
|
| andy198712 wrote: |
| Dan Ruddock wrote: |
| Ohio Tom wrote: |
I vote CB Perf.
They use single groove valves/keepers. They are way better.
And CB heads flow numbers.
Even the Panchito will make 150hp easy.
Get a CNC ported head and the sky is the limit. |
Nothing wrong with three groove as long as the keepers have been modded. Dan |
As in gapped to ensure proper engagement or?
Cheers |
Yes, gapped to ensure clamping..... even still, a drag motor will stretch 3 groove valves.
single groove don't seem to have this problem...
(spoken from experience with many drag builds).
Yes, you can make anything work, but when asked what my preference is: Single groove.
Also the quality on 3 groove stuff is all over the board. Keepers and retainers are hit-miss fit. Single groove stuff fits perfect every time. No fuss...
Again, just my opinion based on the volume of race motors I maintain... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002
Posts: 4394
Location: Brew City
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Which cylinder heads? CB, Mofoco, Steve Tims, others? |
|
|
| Ohio Tom wrote: |
| andy198712 wrote: |
| Dan Ruddock wrote: |
| Ohio Tom wrote: |
I vote CB Perf.
They use single groove valves/keepers. They are way better.
And CB heads flow numbers.
Even the Panchito will make 150hp easy.
Get a CNC ported head and the sky is the limit. |
Nothing wrong with three groove as long as the keepers have been modded. Dan |
As in gapped to ensure proper engagement or?
Cheers |
Yes, gapped to ensure clamping..... even still, a drag motor will stretch 3 groove valves.
single groove don't seem to have this problem...
(spoken from experience with many drag builds).
Yes, you can make anything work, but when asked what my preference is: Single groove.
Also the quality on 3 groove stuff is all over the board. Keepers and retainers are hit-miss fit. Single groove stuff fits perfect every time. No fuss...
Again, just my opinion based on the volume of race motors I maintain... |
THIS is why many people get into arguments on this site. The thread is specifically talking about a weekend fun street car, not a drag motor. I have been building motors and cylinder heads using 3 groove keepers that touch to keep the valve spinning for 50 years, no problem at all.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with bringing drag strip tech to the street but it certainly isn't necessary in this case.
_________________
Please "LIKE" us on facebook to see what we are working on.
https://www.facebook.com/mofoco?ref=ts&fref=ts
www.mofoco.com
Cylinder Head Reference Sheet |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dan Ruddock
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012
Posts: 3668
Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:58 am Post subject: Re: Which cylinder heads? CB, Mofoco, Steve Tims, others? |
|
|
| Ohio Tom wrote: |
| andy198712 wrote: |
| Dan Ruddock wrote: |
| Ohio Tom wrote: |
I vote CB Perf.
They use single groove valves/keepers. They are way better.
And CB heads flow numbers.
Even the Panchito will make 150hp easy.
Get a CNC ported head and the sky is the limit. |
Nothing wrong with three groove as long as the keepers have been modded. Dan |
As in gapped to ensure proper engagement or?
Cheers |
Yes, gapped to ensure clamping..... even still, a drag motor will stretch 3 groove valves.
single groove don't seem to have this problem...
(spoken from experience with many drag builds).
Yes, you can make anything work, but when asked what my preference is: Single groove.
Also the quality on 3 groove stuff is all over the board. Keepers and retainers are hit-miss fit. Single groove stuff fits perfect every time. No fuss...
with
Again, just my opinion based on the volume of race motors I maintain... |
The question is what causes the stretch? I believe it is excess hot valve clearance, poorly designed camshaft lash ramps and valve float causes this. If they are eliminated the problem will go away. Dan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Alstrup
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 7825
Location: Videbaek Denmark
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:22 am Post subject: Re: Which cylinder heads? CB, Mofoco, Steve Tims, others? |
|
|
| Nothing will withstand serius valve float or serius detonation. But 90% ot the issues with "stretched" stems are down to the fact that the valve locks are not matched to the valve. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002
Posts: 4394
Location: Brew City
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:33 am Post subject: Re: Which cylinder heads? CB, Mofoco, Steve Tims, others? |
|
|
| Dan Ruddock wrote: |
| Ohio Tom wrote: |
| andy198712 wrote: |
| Dan Ruddock wrote: |
| Ohio Tom wrote: |
I vote CB Perf.
They use single groove valves/keepers. They are way better.
And CB heads flow numbers.
Even the Panchito will make 150hp easy.
Get a CNC ported head and the sky is the limit. |
Nothing wrong with three groove as long as the keepers have been modded. Dan |
As in gapped to ensure proper engagement or?
Cheers |
Yes, gapped to ensure clamping..... even still, a drag motor will stretch 3 groove valves.
single groove don't seem to have this problem...
(spoken from experience with many drag builds).
Yes, you can make anything work, but when asked what my preference is: Single groove.
Also the quality on 3 groove stuff is all over the board. Keepers and retainers are hit-miss fit. Single groove stuff fits perfect every time. No fuss...
with
Again, just my opinion based on the volume of race motors I maintain... |
The question is what causes the stretch? I believe it is excess hot valve clearance, poorly designed camshaft lash ramps and valve float causes this. If they are eliminated the problem will go away. Dan |
Yep, the most common reason I have found for stretched grooves is not adjusting or improperly adjusting the valves.
_________________
Please "LIKE" us on facebook to see what we are working on.
https://www.facebook.com/mofoco?ref=ts&fref=ts
www.mofoco.com
Cylinder Head Reference Sheet |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002
Posts: 4394
Location: Brew City
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: Which cylinder heads? CB, Mofoco, Steve Tims, others? |
|
|
| Alstrup wrote: |
| Nothing will withstand serius valve float or serius detonation. But 90% ot the issues with "stretched" stems are down to the fact that the valve locks are not matched to the valve. |
Yep, there are/were a few manufacturers out there that made the 3 groove ones and when you tried to assemble them, the groove spacing didn't match the valve and would "stick" I can't imagine those would last more than a few hundred miles.....but I don't know as I never put any heads together with them.
_________________
Please "LIKE" us on facebook to see what we are working on.
https://www.facebook.com/mofoco?ref=ts&fref=ts
www.mofoco.com
Cylinder Head Reference Sheet |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
