Pertronix SVDA failure

[Schepp]

Add this thing to the junk pile.
Less than 1500 miles and it’s toast.
Pertronix coil tested good.

I was loaded up for a Rallycross event this weekend. Had just got gas and was heading back home. Spent months getting the car prepared for this weekend.
Then outa nowhere the car just died while waiting at a red light at the busiest intersection of town during commute time on Friday.
These two dudes were chilling on their porch smoking a joint when I broke down in front of their house. They helped me push the car onto the sidewalk. Super cool dudes.
My buddy towed me home with his 4Runner.
Missed the round 1 of the race today as I spent the day troubleshooting and tuning. Thankfully I had save the old crusty Bosch 009 points distributor and rusty black no name coil.
The car fired right up. Got the timing dialed in and drove great. It starts much quicker than the Pertronix did. I’m wondering if that was an indication it was having problems?

Not all is lost as I’ll be able to compete in round 2 tomorrow. No chance of winning as I missed round 1 but at least I can get the seat time.

I’m pretty upset because there’s so much hype around these things. We we’re literally just talking about the hit or miss quality of these units a couple weeks ago.
Now that I’ve experienced the death of one of these electronic units, I’ll never get another.
I’m pretty much convinced that I’ll be going back to points.
I could have had it back on the road in 30min if it were a points setup.
I learned a lot today.
Once this weekend is over it’s time to figure out what’s next.
I’m thinking a restored 034 svda?
While yes, the performance factor may not be as high, at least it will be reliable.
For me reliability more important than performance.

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Bandit #19
1972 Baja Rallycross Bug

[Glenn]

[Schepp]

Glenn,
5yrs new.
I’ve never see that thread before. Time to start reading…
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Bandit #19
1972 Baja Rallycross Bug

[modok]

Sorry for your trouble, but glad to see the lessons we learned are still true.
Transistor ignition is a great invention.
but it can leave you high and dry
As it tends to work 100% or not at all
so the solution is
Just have a spare ready to plug in.

If your system makes it hard to "plug another one in", Change the system.

[oprn]

Nothing like good old points for dependability and quick starting! In my limited experience electronic ignitions seem to have to turnover for a bit before they will lite the fire. This is not only with the pointless distributors but also the crank trigger I have.

Point in case, I needed to move both Buggies out of the hay shed today to get at something. Both have been sitting for about 6 weeks. The good old points engine started almost instantly but the crank triggered one would not fire on the first 4 tried but eventually did. Not even cold yet just a few degrees below freezing!

This by the way was my experience with Pertronics. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=711733&highlight=
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old!

[Schepp]

Not all of us have 40 or more years of VW or otherwise antique automotive experience.
Us youngsters have some catching up to do.
I don’t ask for handouts.
I drank the Koolaid, lessons were learned.
It took 6yrs to build my first VW. I’ve been driving it for just over a year. I’m about to race it off road for the 2nd time.
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Bandit #19
1972 Baja Rallycross Bug

[mikedjames]

Pertronix got a good name for themselves by selling a simple bulletproof points replacement unit - the Ignitor 1. But just like points, if you left the car with the ignition on and the engine stopped, it could burn out the coil if the points were "closed".

So they created the Ignitor II - which detects that the engine is not running by measuring the time between ignition events and turns off if it is too long.
However, it seems that once the module has got hot at some time, it sometimes decides that cranking is too slow and turns off. And also can develop high speed faults giving misfires..

Then they created the Ignitor III that attempts to use the four lobes of the points cam with a sensor as timing references. The slopes of that cam are fairly gentle, and so it is difficult to get stable and accurate timing out of this kind of design. Leads to rough idling if the engine speed varies much between the lobes of the cam - which it does- and the effect builds up until it ends up with unstable idling.

For most people, if you have a good points and condenser setup, it will work.
And if you want vacuum advance go for a 123 distributor. If you want an electronic 009 replacement, then there are a few American suppliers who will provide you with an 009 replacement.
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Ancient vehicles and vessels

1974 VW T2 : Devon Eurovette camper with 1641 DP T1 engine, Progressive carb, full flow oil cooler, EDIS crank timed ignition.
Engine 1: 40k miles (rocker shaft clip fell off), Engine 2: 30k miles (rebuild, dropped valve). Engine 3: a JK Preservation Parts "new" engine, aluminium case: 26k miles: new top end.
Gearbox rebuild 2021 by Bears.

1979 Westerly GK24 24 foot racer/cruiser yacht Forethought of Gosport.
1973 wooden Pacer sailing dinghy

[Bobs67vwagen]

Sorry to hear of your electronic failure schepp. I have always used points and as said many times on this forum, I have gotten many miles out of them and never had a failure even though I usually carried a spare dizzy on long trips. Good quality points and condenser are getting hard to find which makes more people inclined to go with a module. I think Glenn mentioned that standard motor products currently makes a good quality set of points which I will look into. Bosch used to make the Tiger Stripe heavy duty points and if I see those NOS I will buy them.

[Glenn]

[oprn]

[Zed999]

In general defence of electronic ignition modules, they don't have to be bad, my Ignitor 1 c/w "flame thrower" (lol at the name) coil have been in constant service since I got them 25 years ago and it starts on the button every time.

[vamram]

Schepp, I've had the same experience years ago - 2012-13? - w/multiple Pertronix-branded ignition parts failing: the SVDA vacuum can lasted a year, and the centrifugal advance by itself was awful, impossible to tune as just an "009." Flame Thrower coil died after 6 months. On a different car, the Pertronix ignition module failed in a short time.

I've had much better luck w/the Compu-Fire and its Accu-Fire knock-off, running them for years in both of my cars. I do keep a spare timed distributor w/me at all times and even a set of points and condenser just for the heck of it. But the Compu-fires have been pretty bullet-proof.

Cylinder coils are a whole other story. Most are pure crap.
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"Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition
to put moral chains upon their own appetites. -Edmund Burke

'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...we hardly knew ye. Sold 2025 for peanuts.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!!

[Glenn]

[Glenn]

[oprn]

Can't confirm or deny the auto stop stuff. I don't own anything that new. The wife's 2000 Forester was one of the slowest starters in our stable when we had it.
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old!

[BFB]

yeh Glenn is right, new cars start "at the push of a button" figuratively and literally. hell, we've had some new diesel trucks in the shop that were push button start and there's virtually no delay in starting, no waiting for glow plugs for 10- 20 seconds like we used to.
im not even going to get strarted on the auto shut off / start thing but yeh ,the vehicles that do that fire up instantly.

far as the electronic pickups for our shit, ive had a few go out, of course the first was from leaving the key on out of ignorance then a few others went out just because they do that. but I think the best ones ive had were the cheapie knock offs and the best of those I think was the style that had the disk that went on top vs the cylinder that went over the lobes. and its easy enough to carry a spare set and just drop into the dizzy, no need to carry a whole other dizzy and jacking with point gap. not saying I dont like points, i do, i like that points tend to give you a little warning ahead of time. I'll run points on any engine I can if the owner is capable of working on them, considering most of my engines go in rails and go off-road it'd be better to limp home on burnt points than be doa out in the trails somewhere.
ive never run the pertronix 2 or 3 though as they seemed too over complicated and also not really compatible with the BB, so I avoided them.
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"how am i supposed to torque the rear wheel nut to 250 ft lbs??? " - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
Most experts aren't.

[DesertSasquatchXploration]

I believe its the heat that kills them.

I spent 250 on one in my early days failed too. Total POS never again they wanted 83 for a new pickup screw that. I love my points never let me down. Get an old dwell meter your good to go.
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Key is to have downward travel Preload keep both wheels on the ground at all times once you lift a tire your DONE. Guys worry about clearance instead think of the opposite you want the suspension to drop that tire in the hole and keep you going. A spider for example they keep their body low but their legs can reach pretty far so they don't (bottom out)

[Rob Combs]

[ZEKE65]

I run an Igniter II, and keep an identical distributor in the car with an Igniter II in it, with the clamp on and pre timed. So its just changing out the distributor. No problems yet with the first one in 3400 miles.
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1965 VW Sedan, 1968 C10 Step BB, 99 C5

[heimlich]

I had two different distributors with electronic points in them. One went out while I was driving down the road. The other went out while I was in a store. I walked home each time. I've never had manual points leave me stranded. Usually you can limp home when you feel the condenser going out.
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