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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 16749
Location: North Florida, USA
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 Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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After 7 pages I suppose the message gets diluted? 
(1) The transmission input shaft having a sleeve (or not) will dictate which throwout (release) bearing you need to match your transmission.
With a sleeve = later style throwout bearing
Without a sleeve = earlier style throwout bearing
(2) The throwout bearing release arm must match the bearing or you cannot properly control the throwout bearing.
(3) The throwout bearing will dictate the type of pressure plate to install on the flywheel.
Late style without ring
Early styles with ring
If your pressure plate came with a centering ring (early style), you may be able to remove it and use the pressure plate with a later throwout bearing (seems to work with all diaphragm type pressure plates).
I would NOT expect an ORIGINAL '68 pressure plate to have a removable/convertible centering ring and still work with the later style throwout bearing since the later style clutch system didn't yet exist at that time.
And I doubt ALL centering rings are interchangeable amongst ALL pressure plates. You can see above that the 3-finger pressure plate has a different ring than the diaphragm type.
Having said all that... I've just gone through the entire thread and noticed no one posted a pic of the input shaft seal conversion kit that allows earlier transmissions to use the later style throwout bearings:
In the upper right is the special input shaft seal with an integrated sleeve. You also need the newer style release arm (in the kit) to work with the newer style throwout bearing (also included). The only custom part in this kit is the sleeve/seal.
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road  }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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larryvance66
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Joined: January 27, 2009
Posts: 731
Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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PK, I just read the entire thread and never found out the secret of the Bowden Tube. (Maybe I missed it  ) What is the purpose of the Bowden Tube? What are the stmptoms that you need to adjust/replace it? And how do you adjust it?
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 16749
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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Rather than add to this thread which is specifically about the difference between the early and late clutch parts... give these sites a read for details on the bowden tube:
http://www.vw-resource.com/bowden_tube.html
http://www.thebugshop.org/bsfqbwdn.htm
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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oldvolkz
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2005
Posts: 321
Location: Hollister, Califaztlan
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 12:26 am Post subject: |
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| ashman40 wrote: |
After 7 pages I suppose the message gets diluted?
(1) The transmission input shaft having a sleeve (or not) will dictate which throwout (release) bearing you need to match your transmission.
With a sleeve = later style throwout bearing
Without a sleeve = earlier style throwout bearing
(2) The throwout bearing release arm must match the bearing or you cannot properly control the throwout bearing.
(3) The throwout bearing will dictate the type of pressure plate to install on the flywheel.
Late style without ring
Early styles with ring
If your pressure plate came with a centering ring (early style), you may be able to remove it and use the pressure plate with a later throwout bearing (seems to work with all diaphragm type pressure plates).
I would NOT expect an ORIGINAL '68 pressure plate to have a removable/convertible centering ring and still work with the later style throwout bearing since the later style clutch system didn't yet exist at that time.
And I doubt ALL centering rings are interchangeable amongst ALL pressure plates. You can see above that the 3-finger pressure plate has a different ring than the diaphragm type.
Having said all that... I've just gone through the entire thread and noticed no one posted a pic of the input shaft seal conversion kit that allows earlier transmissions to use the later style throwout bearings:
In the upper right is the special input shaft seal with an integrated sleeve. You also need the newer style release arm (in the kit) to work with the newer style throwout bearing (also included). The only custom part in this kit is the sleeve/seal. |
where would you get a Sleeve/seal for this kit?
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mnussbau
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Joined: August 26, 2006
Posts: 4610
Location: Central Maryland
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 16749
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| ashman40 wrote: |
Having said all that... I've just gone through the entire thread and noticed no one posted a pic of the input shaft seal conversion kit that allows earlier transmissions to use the later style throwout bearings:
In the upper right (of the pic) is the special input shaft seal with an integrated sleeve. You also need the newer style release arm (in the kit) to work with the newer style throwout bearing (also included). The only custom part in this kit is the sleeve/seal. |
I included the link to the kit which contains the sleeve/seal in the above text. Move your cursor over the words "input shaft seal conversion kit".
*EDIT: Found another source for just the sleeve/seal:
http://www.bearsmotorsport.co.uk/Volkswagen-Parts-Performance-Parts-VW.aspx#clutch
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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joehadams
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Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 242
Location: Connecticut
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| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| so let me get this straight, i have a '67 transmission requiring an early throw out bearing. and a '54 engine with a pressure plate with centering ring. is this right or am i missing something? |
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kme9418
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Joined: January 30, 2003
Posts: 277
Location: San Antonio, TX
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, so which is better...early or later? Why? I have a late trans (3 threaded holes for the guide bushing). I do not have the guide bushing installed and I have an early cross shaft. I know the springs can pop off on the early TOB if not safety wired in place. I am in the middle of an engine swap anyway so I can go early or late on the PP and TOB since I still have to purchase them. Is it worth changing out the cross shaft to a late model just to make the switch?
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KME9418
1969 VW Beetle |
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ezrydr
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Joined: June 29, 2011
Posts: 106
Location: Alton IA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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so if I understand all this correctly I can use this kit
[/url]
to replace my early style throwout bearing and then I can use this pressure plate; (which I have off a donor car)
right?
thanks,
Steve
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Cusser
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Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 33416
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| joehadams wrote: |
| so let me get this straight, i have a '67 transmission requiring an early throw out bearing. and a '54 engine with a pressure plate with centering ring. is this right ? |
Yes.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Cusser
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Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 33416
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| ezrydr wrote: |
so if I understand all this correctly I can use this kit
[/url]
to replace my early style throwout bearing and then I can use this pressure plate; (which I have off a donor car)
right?
thanks,
Steve |
yes.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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ezrydr
Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2011
Posts: 106
Location: Alton IA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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I love simple. 
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kme9418
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2003
Posts: 277
Location: San Antonio, TX
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| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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Asked more simply: Is there an advantage to the late style throwout bearing with the guide bushing over the early style without?
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KME9418
1969 VW Beetle |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 16749
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| ezrydr wrote: |
| I love simple. |
Actually, IMHO it is simpler/easier to "bolt on" the correct pressure plate + TO bearing (that match the transmission) than to replace the input shaft seal on the transmission.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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ezrydr
Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2011
Posts: 106
Location: Alton IA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:04 am Post subject: |
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I took the engine and tranny out of my chassis this weekend and also too the engine and tranny out of my donor chassis. The funny thing is the donor chassis has an older engine and a newer tranny and my buggy chassis is just the opposite.
My buggy has the early TO and pressure plate. Donor has the newer stuff.
TO in my buggy is shot and the pressure plate is very rusty. The donor flywheel and prssure plate look brand new.
It would be nice if I could use the flywheel and pressure plate off the donot car with the tranny in my buggy chassis.
That kit looked like it might be the way to go so I could use the donor parts.
So can you describe what is involved in replacing the input shaft seal on my early transmission? Is transmission disassembly required or can it be done from outside the case?
Thanks,
Steve
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langan
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Joined: December 31, 2010
Posts: 427
Location: Eagle ID.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| On the three finger type can't I just make the centering ring bigger to fit over the TO bearing collar? |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 16749
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| langan wrote: |
| On the three finger type can't I just make the centering ring bigger to fit over the TO bearing collar? |
There is a pic earlier in this thread that shows how to remove the center ring from the 3-finger type clutch plate:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1...;start=123
It may not work for ALL 3-finger plates, but the more recent ones should allow for this.
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AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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VWDruid
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Joined: June 14, 2008
Posts: 1192
Location: Boca de Ratones FL
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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this link was on Performance FAQ "Sticky's" so I'll see if I can get my question filled here before starting a new thread.
my transmission started to slip and shake the other day so I swapped out the clutch cable just encase with no joy, so I have a good idea of what I may need but I thought I'd ask just in case I'm missing some thing.
091 trans on T1, Kennedy stage 2
systems: clutch peddle vibrates, engine takes longer to catch and higher rpm to engage, I can hear a small whine when engaging the clutch @ idle.
I'm thinking it's the clutch plate or maybe T/O bearing.
my shopping list
1700 LB. KENNEDY 200MM CLUTCH PLATE STAGE-I
CLUTCH RELEASE BRG
maybe
CLUTCH DISC
CROSS SHAFT BUS 76-79
any other suggestions or info?
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70 Westy, 2027cc "dual DRLA 40 m140 i55 wjdoc a165 p33 v30 "w100 straight cut 040 polished heads 1.25 rockers 1.5 A1sidewinder supertrapp muffler trans 091 coil SUM-850500 CDI universal svda Pertronix
http://www.storyofstuff.com/
It's not the straight cut gears It's the T.A.R.D.I.S. engine.
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 16749
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| VWDruid wrote: |
091 trans on T1, Kennedy stage 2
systems: clutch peddle vibrates, engine takes longer to catch and higher rpm to engage, I can hear a small whine when engaging the clutch @ idle.
<...>
CROSS SHAFT BUS 76-79 |
Have you considered posting this question in the Bay Window Bus forum?
This thread was for which pressure plate + TO Bearing combo worked together. Your question is why your Bus tranny clutch is slipping... seems like the wrong thread.
My only input for your list is to consider that there are two sides to the clutch disc. It is sandwiched between the pressure plate and the flywheel. Both need to be in good shape for the clutch to work. Budget for resurfacing the flywheel surface and mounting flange.
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AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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VWDruid
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2008
Posts: 1192
Location: Boca de Ratones FL
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:54 am Post subject: |
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O.k. thanks
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70 Westy, 2027cc "dual DRLA 40 m140 i55 wjdoc a165 p33 v30 "w100 straight cut 040 polished heads 1.25 rockers 1.5 A1sidewinder supertrapp muffler trans 091 coil SUM-850500 CDI universal svda Pertronix
http://www.storyofstuff.com/
It's not the straight cut gears It's the T.A.R.D.I.S. engine.
wanted Chameleon Circuit |
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