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turbotransporter
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2006
Posts: 459
Location: Bainbridge Island WA
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 Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| Crankey wrote: |
so how many days driving it ? how many times have you been out to wipe down the road dust off the engine ? 
sending you a PM... |
Road dust? I peeked into Otto's engine compartment last weekend and I didn't see any dust... Blinded by the New Mexico light perhaps?  |
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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Unlocked per OP request.
BUT (and it is a big one,) cut the crud and stay on topic.
I just do not have all the time to constantly prune the junk out.
If it keeps up, it gets locked again until I can clean it up.
Play nice!
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mariusstrom
Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2010
Posts: 745
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Crankey wrote: |
so how many days driving it ? how many times have you been out to wipe down the road dust off the engine ?
sending you a PM... |
Hey Crankey -
Dunno about how many days of actual driving I've done, but I've got about 1500 miles on the clock, just about ready for my first break-in oil change. (well, the second - the first happened the day of breaking in the new engine)
I've been more than thrilled with the power of the engine, but have been fighting gremlins related to my fuel economy. Chris has been nothing short of over-helpful when it comes to my long-winded emails and troubleshooting, and I've even enlisted the help of some of our Vanagon forum pros to help out. That's how turbotransporter got to see Otto's engine bay.
I think we're close to killing the fuel econ problem, though. I'm going to fill up this tank tomorrow and measure, and judging by the trip odo and the fuel gauge, I'm already doing better than I was before. Things we've done to hopefully kill this:
* Hi-temp ("sensor safe") gasket sealant on the WBX-aust slip joint just before the catalytic to put the kibosh on a serious exhaust leak that wasn't going away with tightening clamps
* Replaced Temp II sensor (a cheap hail mary)
* Redid every engine bay ground, including O2 sensor reference ground
* Debugged and replaced O2 sensor
* Tweaked throttle body settings (my mechanic and I both failed at tencent's instructions.. we just had to make some adjustments to the TB that we shouldn't have, which killed idle
I'm sure there's more. Most of my troubleshooting and challenge getting it tuned right centers (I think) around getting the exhaust system sealed up. Before getting into this, I had no idea how important a sealed exhaust system was to the fuel injection system!
More to come tomorrow when I calculate up the MPGs... |
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Crankey
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2004
Posts: 2672
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| your shure it's not the pure joy of tromping on that gas pedal that's not killing your MPG ? |
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mariusstrom
Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2010
Posts: 745
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Crankey wrote: |
| your shure it's not the pure joy of tromping on that gas pedal that's not killing your MPG ? |
That was the first few tanks that I was pushing 12mpg. The latest few (where I've been very nice to the pedal) have hovered around the mid-14s. I'm hoping for higher shortly. |
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syncroid
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2006
Posts: 319
Location: CA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| Do you know what the average is for these engines? |
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mariusstrom
Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2010
Posts: 745
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| syncroid wrote: |
| Do you know what the average is for these engines? |
I've heard of one other Automatic Transmission install for this engine hitting 20-21 on the highway and 17-18 around town. I'm not sure if that was a tin-top or a Westy, but mine's a full westy. |
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MootPoint
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2006
Posts: 862
Location: ABQ, NM
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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My 4-speed Westy with a not-quite 2 y/o 10¢ engine with about 11K miles on it, fully loaded for camping plus two people, seems to average right around 19 mpg highway. It's been as low as 17 once or twice and as high as almost 22. YMMV.
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1984 Westy with tencentlife power! |
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mariusstrom
Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2010
Posts: 745
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Well, filled up today, and ... 14.9mpg. So I still haven't solved it.
Next step is going back to my mechanic that has the gas analyzer to do some fuel/air mix adjusting... unless someone knows of a way to do that adjustment w/o the fancy equipment? |
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AtlasShrugged
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2008
Posts: 1605
Location: Decatur, Ga. USA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| mariusstrom wrote: |
Well, filled up today, and ... 14.9mpg. So I still haven't solved it.
Next step is going back to my mechanic that has the gas analyzer to do some fuel/air mix adjusting... unless someone knows of a way to do that adjustment w/o the fancy equipment? |
New engines..well built ones will require some time to run-in. Close tolerances generate some internal friction. Your MPG will go up gradually over the first 5k/10k miles.
15mpg is really not bad if most of the driving was in town, stop and go.
I always liked to take a long trip with a new engine and try and put 1k miles on the motor. Get it to operating temperature and cruise for a few hours, Vary the RPMs and load on the engine while driving. Helps bed-in the moving parts and makes for a healthy long lived power-plant. |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:45 am Post subject: |
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I agree with the new engines having higher friction.
I think the issue is the automatic transmission.
Stock they only get around 16mpg, best case. |
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mariusstrom
Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2010
Posts: 745
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| insyncro wrote: |
I agree with the new engines having higher friction.
I think the issue is the automatic transmission.
Stock they only get around 16mpg, best case. |
I'd routinely get 18+mpg on my old wbx, FWIW. |
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tencentlife
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 10163
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| I'd routinely get 18+mpg on my old wbx, FWIW. |
Yeah that's what you ought to be getting in mixed driving. Break-in is at least 95% over with by an hour of runtime if done properly, and this engine already has a bunch of hours on it. The auto-trans does present a mileage penalty of a couple mpg, that can't be avoided, but these engines will deliver the same fuel efficiency as stock.
The problem is in the engine management systems, we've gone over all the usual suspects. Putting a wideband on it would be the best thing to do, to know what the actual mixture is going down the road.
I know people will want to offer helpful suggestions, but believe me there arent any stones you could point to that we haven't already looked under.
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AtlasShrugged
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2008
Posts: 1605
Location: Decatur, Ga. USA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:00 am Post subject: |
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Your old engine was well broken in. Must have had good compression and tune for the 18mpg. I presume the 18mpg was an average on the highway at modest road speeds and loads.
Give your new engine some running time too. The MPG will come up.
Our old Vanagons do like the fuel. I don't drive mine for economy purposes.
I miss the gas prices we had a few years ago..its like paying another mortgage these days.
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svenakela
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2006
Posts: 776
Location: Ekerö
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| As a side note: You're half way to our gas price. |
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AtlasShrugged
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2008
Posts: 1605
Location: Decatur, Ga. USA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| svenakela wrote: |
| As a side note: You're half way to our gas price. |
You guys are probably burning our gasoline..no oil wells in Sweden.
According to the WSJ..we are swimming in the stuff and are sending it abroad. They must get get a better price from you guys than here at home.
"The United States has become a major exporter of, get this — gasoline.
We sent abroad more 430,000 more barrels of refined gas, the stuff you get at the pump, than we imported in September, according to government data. That is more than double what it was at the beginning of this year, reports CNN.
Several things have changed: Our demand has declined with the slowing economy, and our cars just use less than they once did. Plus, we burn more corn in the form of ethanol.
The United States, long a gasoline importer, now sends refined oil products to countries that are growing faster but don’t have the refinery capacity in place.
The country is on track to be a net exporter of refined oil products for the first time in 62 years, reports The Wall Street Journal."
Supply and demand...and cheating the US citizens again  |
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Altoona
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2011
Posts: 604
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| tencentlife wrote: |
| Break-in is at least 95% over with by an hour of runtime if done properly... |
Having read a bunch of other internet opinions on break-in procedures, would you care to share yours? Or a reference to a procedure that you approve of for your engines?
If you have already articulated this elsewhere, I apologize. |
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joseph928
Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2011
Posts: 2114
Location: flagstaff az.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:37 pm Post subject: mpg |
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 15 with a auto. in town not bad, with a stick I only get 17 in town, best ever 21 on the reservation with a 40 mph tail wind. I only have 35,000 on new engine, so I would say is totally broken in. be happy you have a great engine by a great builder! 
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buildyourown
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2009
Posts: 1668
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| AtlasShrugged wrote: |
| svenakela wrote: |
| As a side note: You're half way to our gas price. |
You guys are probably burning our gasoline..no oil wells in Sweden.
According to the WSJ..we are swimming in the stuff and are sending it abroad. They must get get a better price from you guys than here at home.
[i]"The United States has become a major exporter of, get this — gasoline.
We sent abroad more 430,000 more barrels of refined gas, the stuff you get at the pump, than we imported in September, according to government data. That is more than double what it was at the beginning of this year, reports CNN.
: |
That math is funny.
We import more than 9 million barrels a day of crude and produce about 5 million domestically. We have excess refining capacity so some of the product is sold to countries who may have oil, but no ability to refine.
Gas consumption alone is over 9 million barrels (378,000,000 gal) per day.
That 430,000 difference is for the whole month of Sept. So yeah, we are exporting .16 % of the gas refined in this country. I don't think that's enough supply to affect price at the pump.
(Don't forget who owns WSJ) |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| mariusstrom wrote: |
| insyncro wrote: |
I agree with the new engines having higher friction.
I think the issue is the automatic transmission.
Stock they only get around 16mpg, best case. |
I'd routinely get 18+mpg on my old wbx, FWIW. |
18+ as a high or average?...I say 16 average. |
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