Rod's Chenowth 4LWD Build

[racecougar]

Considering going to thick-wall slip-in 88's and dual port heads this Winter to hopefully pick up some power. It looks like I could buy new parts for about $1k. Open to thoughts/advice here. Would that make a noticeable difference? Would I be better off with the 35x32 valves or 40x35?



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[jimmyhoffa]

My thoughts are you should probably drive my car hard for frame of reference, knowing my engine configuration, and then decide where in that spectrum you want to be. Our car weights and layouts are very close to identical, with me having a 10" shorter wheelbase.
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1974 Chenowth 2RL #1244 Street Legal
My other car isn't ridiculous.

[racecougar]

It would be great to get together sometime this year. IIRC, your car runs high 13's. I'll venture a guess that this thing would run a 18.5. If I could get closer to mid-15's for around $1k, I'd be okay with that. It won't be quick, but it'll at least have enough power to feel relatively safe (in keeping up with traffic) on the street.

In the interest of science, I'm going to pull the intake manifold and drill/tap this boss to temporarily connect a vacuum gauge. I'm interested to see if the little H30/31 carb is holding me back, or if it's the rest of the combination (heads/cam/CR/displacement).

[ORANGECRUSHer]

You went from, the rig is all dialed in to I think I need to throw more money at it pretty quick. You sound like me a bit. Never satisfied.
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Brian H.

OrangeCrushERBerrien Warrior-2.4L Quad4-2x3 arms-1.5Fox coilovers-094-930CVs
LAZY MARY1970 Baja 2110cc-82mm CB forged crank-AA pistons/cylinders-Grant rings-1.1 vw rockers-CB serpkit-CB chromoly PRs-CB maxiflow filter pump-wix51515 filter-Dual 44IDF-cut/turned front beam-AEM wideband-Auber CHT-Donaldson Dual PowerCore filters-custom AL air boxes

[racecougar]

Fueling is dialed in; it's just terribly slow for a 1200# car. It doesn't need to keep up with my other cars, but it at least needs to have enough power to be reasonably safe in traffic. The plan is to drive it as-is this year, excepting any cheap improvements, then decide what to do next. I only have about 150 miles on it thus far.

[ORANGECRUSHer]

I was just poking at ya, Rod. I only had one 1600 engine and I blew it up it pretty short order. I think I threw a rod out the side. That's when I decided to go all in on a modern FI 4 cylinder and have regretted it ever since. There's something to the simplicity of the vw motor. Problem is it seems very hard for some people, me included, to get the right setup. I don't know if it's unrealistic expectations or just a lack of knowing what to do. If I could've sold my buggy I would have started searching for a Chenowth like yours and Mr. Hoffa's.

I think single carb setups can be part of the solution for engines on the smaller side though. Yeah icing is a pain, but so is setting up dual carbs.
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Brian H.

OrangeCrushERBerrien Warrior-2.4L Quad4-2x3 arms-1.5Fox coilovers-094-930CVs
LAZY MARY1970 Baja 2110cc-82mm CB forged crank-AA pistons/cylinders-Grant rings-1.1 vw rockers-CB serpkit-CB chromoly PRs-CB maxiflow filter pump-wix51515 filter-Dual 44IDF-cut/turned front beam-AEM wideband-Auber CHT-Donaldson Dual PowerCore filters-custom AL air boxes

[racecougar]

I hear you. If it wouldn't wreck the whole vibe of this thing, I'd consider an Ecotec or the like, as the power level would be perfect, IMO. I can settle for somewhere in the middle.

I'm really curious to run this test and see if the carb is a restriction or if it's simply all the power this combination is good for. I'm in the middle of building a 4R70W transmission for Dad's '73 Mustang (I'd post pics, but they would get deleted), but I'll see if I can find an hour to pull this manifold off and drill/tap it.

[DesertSasquatchXploration]

Always add 50% to what you think it will cost, you will find things that are not right during teardown. Then you have machine work. Cost of parts is not what it cost to assemble. Even if doing yourself but you already know that.
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Key is to have downward travel Preload keep both wheels on the ground at all times once you lift a tire your DONE. Guys worry about clearance instead think of the opposite you want the suspension to drop that tire in the hole and keep you going. A spider for example they keep their body low but their legs can reach pretty far so they don't (bottom out)

[cbeck]

Ive done 1500, 1600, 1641, 1776, 1915, and finally a 2054. Still not enough. I wanted bigger, but jim at gateway wouldn't build it for me.
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My cut in half and rebuild thread
www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647779

[racecougar]

You guys aren't giving me much confidence here.

Nah, I have other cars that satisfy the speed requirement. I just need to get the buggy reasonable for street driving.


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[BFB]

Of course the pict is choking it, those things would choke a lawn mower engine. Heh heh JK, i just dont like those carbs, period. ANY other carb would wake that thing up from a pict.
Aside from that if it’s a stock 1600 it only has around 7.5:1 CR.
I think if your wanting something easy & mild then what your thinking wouldnt be a bad idea. Could also bump the compression while you’re there and maybe run some ratios to get a little more lift and duration.
But if it were me , id just start collecting parts and go ahead and build a new engine over the winter. You’ll end up doing that at some point anyhow so itd be better to just skip the ‘no split case ‘ step and build something you think you’ll actually be happy with and then you dont end up with the slip ins and such that you wont use on the engine you end up building.
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"how am i supposed to torque the rear wheel nut to 250 ft lbs??? " - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
Most experts aren't.

[JWHracing]

The single barrel carb and the Donaldson air filter is definitely restricting your potential.

A single Weber IDF 40 is the way to go. You can run an air box and still run your donaldson filter, but in your area, you aren't really in the dry dusty conditions that warrant that much filtration. You'd be better off with a large K&N filter and an outerwear or UNI foam wrap.
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65 Baja - Class 5 Unlimited Race Car

2021 STORR Pro Air Cooled Buggy Champion
2019 AZOP Unlimited Buggy Champion
2017 SADR 1300 Class Champion
2016 AZOP Limited Buggy Champion

Currently "retired" from racing

[ORANGECRUSHer]

You know what you oughta do Rob...

I think a good course to take for most of us mere mortals is to just run what you got as long as you can but in the meantime start purchasing all the parts for another engine to build in the future. Then when you build it you have a backup engine.
I had the idea to do that while I was wrapping up my 2110 build. I found an older gentleman in his 70's or 80's that used to be a VW tech who had an engine for sale that was in pieces. I got so wrapped up into talking to the guy, I forgot to focus on what I was doing there. He had a ton of things he wanted to share with me about building engines and I was soaking it up. I think I picked up a mag case with about 80% of the rest of the engine for about $300. After I got it home I realized it was a hydraulic lifter style case, the reason he didn't want it no doubt. So I paid $300 for some cheap engine parts and an afternoon's worth of old-timer knowledge.
I think he had something terminal and had less than a year to live. He was a working in his workshop on his last VW. He was going to keep going until he couldn't any more. I wonder how he fared?
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Brian H.

OrangeCrushERBerrien Warrior-2.4L Quad4-2x3 arms-1.5Fox coilovers-094-930CVs
LAZY MARY1970 Baja 2110cc-82mm CB forged crank-AA pistons/cylinders-Grant rings-1.1 vw rockers-CB serpkit-CB chromoly PRs-CB maxiflow filter pump-wix51515 filter-Dual 44IDF-cut/turned front beam-AEM wideband-Auber CHT-Donaldson Dual PowerCore filters-custom AL air boxes

[ORANGECRUSHer]

[jimmyhoffa]

[jsturtlebuggy]

OTC Filters (formerly R2C filters) work well and are cleanable.
Yes the best are the Donaldson style are the best so far as the incoming spins dropping most of the dirt out before it can get to filter.
The Donaldson ones I use, actually have two separate paper elements inside each housing.
I use one for each IDF type carburetor.

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Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

[indianpeaksjoe]

My buddy has been driving this baja for 40+ years in Moab. He uses two bus air filters.

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Adventures in owning a 66 beetle

[ORANGECRUSHer]

more than one way to skin a cat
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Brian H.

OrangeCrushERBerrien Warrior-2.4L Quad4-2x3 arms-1.5Fox coilovers-094-930CVs
LAZY MARY1970 Baja 2110cc-82mm CB forged crank-AA pistons/cylinders-Grant rings-1.1 vw rockers-CB serpkit-CB chromoly PRs-CB maxiflow filter pump-wix51515 filter-Dual 44IDF-cut/turned front beam-AEM wideband-Auber CHT-Donaldson Dual PowerCore filters-custom AL air boxes

[racecougar]

.

Wow! I missed a lot here over the course of yesterday.

[indianpeaksjoe]