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Cusser
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Joined: October 02, 2006
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Chinaclipper
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Joined: October 03, 2019
Posts: 810
Location: Somewhere in the great Midwest
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 Posted: Thu May 01, 2025 8:39 am Post subject: Re: Timing Marks on Stock Pulley |
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| baldessariclan wrote: |
The 5° ATDC idle timing setting is strictly for use with fully functional DVDA type distributors, which is what your 1971 Super originally came with, and hence what your references' information is pertinent & applicable to.
However, if you are running a 34 PICT-3 style carb with a SVDA distributor setup (which is what it sounds like you are describing above - "single vacuum line distributor"), then you want to be using approximately 7.5° BTDC for your idle timing setting.
Trying to get a smooth idle and good performance with your current carb + distributor combo and using a 5° ATDC timing setting is nearly impossible. I.e., that's running it at about 12 to 13+ degrees retarded from where it's supposed to be, and thus makes for a huge degradation in acceleration performance, along with upper RPM fuel economy & power!! |
Well, this is starting to make perfect sense. When I originally got the car (waaaaay back in 2018) I do remember a separate cannister that was mounted on the left hand side of the engine compartment, but I don't recall it had anything hooked up to it.....
I wonder if that was part of the "clean air" thing... I will review my distributor, and see if it has the extra vacuum "nipple" on the back like someone elses' stock picture shows. Did that extra port on the back of the DVDA connect to the front of the carb by chance? I know there is a open port on the front of my after market 34PICT there I have capped off.....
Hmm, I don't think there's a port in the back of my distributor. Gonna hafta' check. . I would have thought, tho, I would have noticed it. Did I plug it up the open port in the back maybe?? It was a while ago Hmmm.
THEORY: a) Someone replaced the original DVDA with a SVDA and disconnected all that "clean air" stuff. OR: b) I do have the original DVDA distributor, and I plugged the back port up. Oops....
THEN: If a), re-time to 7.5° BTDC, re-set idle speed, and be happy; or if b), restore vacuum line to front part of carb from rear of DVDA and time as per suggested.
BTW, I looked at prices for the original DVDA distributors.. 
So, more things to try. Thanks everyone.
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baldessariclan
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Joined: October 14, 2016
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Location: Wichita, KS
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2025 9:20 am Post subject: Re: Timing Marks on Stock Pulley |
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| Chinaclipper wrote: |
| Well, this is starting to make perfect sense. When I originally got the car (waaaaay back in 2018) I do remember a separate cannister that was mounted on the left hand side of the engine compartment, but I don't recall it had anything hooked up to it..... |
That's an altitude compensating valve, which went with a throttle-return delay (pollution control) device installed on carb when they originally came from the factory long ago. These components are mostly defunct and generally long gone from cars you find nowadays. They can pretty much be ignored or removed, IMO.
| Chinaclipper wrote: |
THEORY: a) Someone replaced the original DVDA with a SVDA and disconnected all that "clean air" stuff. OR: b) I do have the original DVDA distributor, and I plugged the back port up. Oops....
THEN: If a), re-time to 7.5° BTDC, re-set idle speed, and be happy; or if b), restore vacuum line to front part of carb from rear of DVDA and time as per suggested. |
If the pics you posted above are of your current distributor, that's an original "DVDA" style distributor. But if it's currently configured / connected like you mentioned in your earlier post ("single vacuum line distributor"), then it's acting as a "SVDA" style distributor. Nothing wrong with that, though -- in fact, that's the way I prefer to run them myself. You just need to use the 7.5° BTDC idle timing setting when connected that way -- i.e. w/ the vacuum advance side of the can connected (i.e. the nipple angled down & left), and vacuum retard side of the can disconnected (i.e. the nipple pointing toward front of car).
The corresponding vacuum advance nipple on the carburetor is the one located on its left (driver's) side. The vacuum retard nipple is on back side of the carb, and should be capped off if using the distributor in "SVDA" mode.
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1971 Standard Beetle — fairly stock / driver
baldessariclan -- often in error, never in doubt... |
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Chinaclipper
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Joined: October 03, 2019
Posts: 810
Location: Somewhere in the great Midwest
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2025 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: Timing Marks on Stock Pulley |
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If the pics you posted above are of your current distributor, that's an original "DVDA" style distributor. But if it's currently configured / connected like you mentioned in your earlier post ("single vacuum line distributor"), then it's acting as a "SVDA" style distributor. Nothing wrong with that, though -- in fact, that's the way I prefer to run them myself. You just need to use the 7.5° BTDC idle timing setting when connected that way -- i.e. w/ the vacuum advance side of the can connected (i.e. the nipple angled down & left), and vacuum retard side of the can disconnected (i.e. the nipple pointing toward front of car).
The corresponding vacuum advance nipple on the carburetor is the one located on its left (driver's) side. The vacuum retard nipple is on back side of the carb, and should be capped off if using the distributor in "SVDA" mode.[/quote]
Got it! The second picture is indeed, the DVDA distributor, but it isn't mine! It's just a picture I found for clarifying the DVDA.
Mine is indeed the SVDA. I looked!
UPDATE:
I got the timing mark re-done. I used the very right side of the yellow dab to get the 7 1/2° BTDC. .. I think I'll just use that.. Or maybe if I get real brave I'll file a notch.. Sounds very gunslinger-ish....
Anyway, she runs great, After I reset the static timing, I had to bring the idle waaaay down, of course. I set it at 950rpm, but I do notice I have a little glow on my generator light after hi-way speeds and then return to the streets; you know, when you have to stop for the lights. Almost no "bogging" tho off the line, especially when warm. It isn't perfect, yet, I'll monkey around a bit with it to try and get it just right.
I drove her down to Palmyra, about 15 miles, and back. It's on the interstate, and a bit "roll-y hill-y", and she did well. Seems to run best at about 68 mph, but can run at 70+ mph too.
It's good to have it run so well, it even sounds better, runs more smoo-oother, and has more power, I can really tell. Thanks everyone.
Until the next one.....
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baldessariclan
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Joined: October 14, 2016
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Location: Wichita, KS
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2025 11:38 am Post subject: Re: Timing Marks on Stock Pulley |
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Excellent - glad to hear that you got it running better! 
One last piece of advice along these lines -- once you've got the all the other ignition adjustments made and the idle timing set to 7.5° BTDC, recommend that you then check the maximum mechanical/centrifugal advance alone (i.e. excluding vacuum advance effects).
This is done by disconnecting the vacuum line(s) (important!), revving the motor to 3,800 - 4,000+ RPM, and reading the total amount of ignition advance at that point. For original & in-spec. distributors, this should normally fall within a 28° - 32° BTDC range. But for distributors that are old & worn, modified, or aftermarket copies, this can be a bit less certain...
In general, you want to keep the total amount of mechanical/centrifugal advance limited to no more than 32° BTDC, to avoid pre-ignition pinging and damage to your engine. So when you do this test, if your reading is higher than the 32° BTDC limit for your distributor, you'll want to re-set the timing such that the maximum mechanical/centrifugal advance is at 28° - 32° BTDC, and from that point let the idle timing fall wherever it may.
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1971 Standard Beetle — fairly stock / driver
baldessariclan -- often in error, never in doubt... |
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Chinaclipper
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Joined: October 03, 2019
Posts: 810
Location: Somewhere in the great Midwest
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2025 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: Timing Marks on Stock Pulley |
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| baldessariclan wrote: |
| Excellent - glad to hear that you got it running better! |
Hehehe You and me both.
I will get a timing light with the advance feature. I think I can get one at HF.
I took a road trip from Lincoln to Grand Island and back yesterday with the grandkids.
Oldest was driving my truck with the towing stuff just in case.
Youngest was her co-pilot.
Middle was my co-pilot.
We had a blast. We went to Tommy's Diner in Grand Island and had a nice lunch too.
Performance:
Average speed: 70MPH (it's pretty flat, and straight  )
Total gas consumed: 8 gallons; not even a full tank. I use 87, no ethanol
MPG: I'm saying about 24.5 MPG.
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bsairhead
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Joined: October 08, 2008
Posts: 4495
Location: viroqua wi.
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2025 10:09 am Post subject: Re: Timing Marks on Stock Pulley |
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| Chinaclipper wrote: |
If the pics you posted above are of your current distributor, that's an original "DVDA" style distributor. But if it's currently configured / connected like you mentioned in your earlier post ("single vacuum line distributor"), then it's acting as a "SVDA" style distributor. Nothing wrong with that, though -- in fact, that's the way I prefer to run them myself. You just need to use the 7.5° BTDC idle timing setting when connected that way -- i.e. w/ the vacuum advance side of the can connected (i.e. the nipple angled down & left), and vacuum retard side of the can disconnected (i.e. the nipple pointing toward front of car).
The corresponding vacuum advance nipple on the carburetor is the one located on its left (driver's) side. The vacuum retard nipple is on back side of the carb, and should be capped off if using the distributor in "SVDA" mode. |
If that's a dimple on the rear side of your pulley at 6 1/2 before TDC. You need to go back to the drawing board.
Got it! The second picture is indeed, the DVDA distributor, but it isn't mine! It's just a picture I found for clarifying the DVDA.
Mine is indeed the SVDA. I looked!
UPDATE:
I got the timing mark re-done. I used the very right side of the yellow dab to get the 7 1/2° BTDC. .. I think I'll just use that.. Or maybe if I get real brave I'll file a notch.. Sounds very gunslinger-ish....
Anyway, she runs great, After I reset the static timing, I had to bring the idle waaaay down, of course. I set it at 950rpm, but I do notice I have a little glow on my generator light after hi-way speeds and then return to the streets; you know, when you have to stop for the lights. Almost no "bogging" tho off the line, especially when warm. It isn't perfect, yet, I'll monkey around a bit with it to try and get it just right.
I drove her down to Palmyra, about 15 miles, and back. It's on the interstate, and a bit "roll-y hill-y", and she did well. Seems to run best at about 68 mph, but can run at 70+ mph too.
It's good to have it run so well, it even sounds better, runs more smoo-oother, and has more power, I can really tell. Thanks everyone.
Until the next one.....[/quote] |
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Chinaclipper
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2019
Posts: 810
Location: Somewhere in the great Midwest
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2025 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: Timing Marks on Stock Pulley |
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| bsairhead wrote: |
If that's a dimple on the rear side of your pulley at 6 1/2 before TDC. You need to go back to the drawing board.
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Hmm. I guess I have figured the dimple was 5° ATDC......Honestly I am not sure that IS a dimple on the rear side. Maybe its just a paint mark by the PO?... I'll sand it a bit with some 1500 or so.....
Am I wrong?
If so I am still running a bit retarded........
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China Clippers Official 1971 Super Beetle Project!
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=728089&highlight= |
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baldessariclan
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2016
Posts: 2055
Location: Wichita, KS
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2025 3:00 am Post subject: Re: Timing Marks on Stock Pulley |
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| Chinaclipper wrote: |
| bsairhead wrote: |
If that's a dimple on the rear side of your pulley at 6 1/2 before TDC. You need to go back to the drawing board.
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Hmm. I guess I have figured the dimple was 5° ATDC......Honestly I am not sure that IS a dimple on the rear side. Maybe its just a paint mark by the PO?... I'll sand it a bit with some 1500 or so.....
Am I wrong?
If so I am still running a bit retarded........ |
I see no “TDC dimple” on the rear flange of the pulley in your pics — only the small “V notch” on the forward flange, which is presumably at 5° ATDC. Am thinking this is most likely the original pulley that would have come stock on that AE code engine from the factory.
If you want to see what a “TDC dimple” looks like and where located on a pulley, refer back to the 1st and 3rd pages of this thread — some good pics back there from Glenn, Ashman40, et al. showing those.
I believe that you’re most likely ok using the timing marks and setting as described in your latest posts above. But if you want, you can always double check where TDC is to verify. Using a plastic drinking straw or similar inserted through #1 cylinder spark plug hole, rotate the pulley back and forth near TDC, temporarily marking the two positions where you can no longer feel any more up or down movement of the straw. Midway between those two points is TDC.
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1971 Standard Beetle — fairly stock / driver
baldessariclan -- often in error, never in doubt... |
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