1967 Squareback- starting the journey for a proper DIY paint job

[Bobs67vwagen]

I think you are shooting yourself in the foot here. You should allot enough time to thoroughly sand all rust out and get it into epoxy primer right away. You can open up areas of this later to do bodywork and then epoxy prime those areas again. I would sand off all of that rust converter, unless you know exactly how that will interact with top coats and whether it will affect adhesion. You have a good idea here but I think you need to get the epoxy primer down now to protect it from rust. Good luck Bob

[viiking]

Before you do anything else, spend an hour and read through this thread on Rust Converters. Take note of Ray Greenwood's comments. He knows his stuff on what needs to be done when using Rust Converters. An hour spent now will save you grief later on, even if you think you don't have time.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...;start=260

Most rust converters are based on phosphoric acid, but others are tannin based or other chemicals. It is very easy to find out which by googling the exact brand name and adding SDS. That is the Safety Data Sheet, which by law needs to be available. They are all in the same format, so all you have to do is search and you will find (usually) the main ingredients in Section 3.

WARNING: You must identify the EXACT name when you search. Often there will be a maker's Product or Item Number that will be referenced on the SDS.

When I searched for your product I got a number of similar names including an aerosol version which is different in formulation.

However for what I can see from only the front label of your liquid product, Rustoleum Rust Reformer is 25-50% Vinyl Acrylic Resin plus Barium Sulfate and other minor items. It is not made from phosphoric acid.

https://www.rustoleum.com/MSDS/ENGLISH/3575402.PDF

It is critical, just like building a house to get the foundation right. Improperly using Rust Converters can cause problems down the road with your topcoats.

This is especially true of how you proceed AFTER applying rust converters. Should you remove the excess white residue? Should you wash with water before painting? Should you use a solvent to remove water oil etc?

Whatever you do you need to get it into epoxy as soon as possible, but there is no point continuing until you know how to treat that rust. I wouldn't use etch primer as epoxy will give you a much better protection to the bare metal below.

I have been in the same situation as you and found the best solution was to get a roll-on 2-part epoxy primer and treat and paint small sections as you work on them. Paint over everything even if it needs work. Then grind off small sections that you have time for, repair and then roll on a coat of epoxy over the repaired area for permanent protection.

I found it pointless to try and do the whole car to bare metal and then epoxy prime, because inevitably it always took much longer to do than anticipated and I had to remove the flash rust from the whole car on several occasions. When all the body has been completed, then a whole body epoxy seal coat can be sprayed over the whole thing to get you prepared for the subsequent coats.
_________________
1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3

[bomberbob]

I think someone mentioned making sure you know how a lower layer will react to upper "finish" layers. When I was painting my Jetta there were several spots on the rear passenger quarter that started wrinkling up, some kind of chemical reaction between layers. I took acetone and wiped it off, resanded, resprayed primer, then tried base coat again. Still wrinkled up. Went through it all a thirdd time, but went to a nearby hardware store and bought a different brand of primer. Thats what it took to separate the lower paint levels from the base coat. I don't think it was the primer itself, I think the primer was a buffer. I would make sure those rust reformers do not come back to haunt you later. you might have chemical reactions like I did, and not know what is going on, or how to fix it.
_________________
1968 Beetle torn apart again
1990 Jetta GLI megasquirted, burning E85 (currently in storage)
2004 Jetta turbo GLI
Marion, Iowa

[bigfish6025]

Wow-- First off, I am so appreciative of the 3 of you that took the time to provide such helpful and thorough responses. I can see that I freaked out a little with addressing the flash rust and jumped the gun. I have ordered and will soon receive a paint sprayer so I can lay down my epoxy primer, but I'll definitely be looking in to the SDS on the stuff I bought to see if there will be any issues... hopefully not? I do have one question for clarification regarding roll-on primer

[bomberbob]

Can any 2 part epoxy primer be rolled on? Simple answer is yes, however -
I rolled epoxy primer and high build primer on both my bug, and my Jetta. Reason was I did not want to have to clean my gun, and my next door neighbors complained that my overspray killed their plants.
I used a Short roller, might have been 4 inches? Foam, disposable. I bought some from local hardware store, some off amazon. There is a texture that will be present that you cannot get rid of. There will also be ridges in between your strokes, where the paint squeezes out at the edges. I was willing to deal with these two issues, and just wet sanded with my DA sander and knocked these issues down smooth. I looked back in my gallery photos, I might have posted some before of how the bug paint came out. I still have not buffed the car out (5 years later), this was an experiment spraying water based paint in my garage. I was told it could not be done, it was very easy.
As long as you are willing to sand out the texture and the lines from the roller edges, go for it.

_________________
1968 Beetle torn apart again
1990 Jetta GLI megasquirted, burning E85 (currently in storage)
2004 Jetta turbo GLI
Marion, Iowa

[viiking]

Of course spraying with epoxy will give a better result if you DON'T want to sand it back smooth.

Some epoxies are very hard and if the rolling causes lines and bumps you will have to deal with these. Of course you will still probably use high build primer over the epoxy once the metal work has been completed and this will help cover the blemishes.

Many boat builders use the "roll-on tip-off with a brush" method with topcoats and you'd swear it is sprayed on. Check out some of the videos on painting boats and you will see they type of roller that they recommend.

One solution is to consider looking at something like the Eastwood Opti Flow system. There are lots of videos on the system and whilst no doubt expensive, if you consider the costs of cleaning spray guns, the hidden costs of running air compressors and using electricity it may make sense to some people.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&...SJzO1U9umU
_________________
1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3

[viiking]

[bomberbob]

I actually tried rolling on both base coat, and clear. Both failures.
Basecoat always seemed to dissolve the previous coats, leaving dark shadows (primer underneath). Gave up and sprayed with gun.
Clear left bubbles, I think the boat people said to follow up with a heat gun to pop the bubbles. Not worth the trouble. I thought about experimenting with just the sunroof panel adding more thinner but it was just a mess. Broke out the gun for clear.

But rolling on primers, I would not hesitate to do it again. I also like rolling Master Series, thin it out some and that rolls on real nice with the texture and edge lines I mentioned earlier.
_________________
1968 Beetle torn apart again
1990 Jetta GLI megasquirted, burning E85 (currently in storage)
2004 Jetta turbo GLI
Marion, Iowa

[bomberbob]

I just happen to have a fender I have to paint for a 2006 Jetta. My son's car, old fender is a rusty tetanus shot waiting for a place to happen. I will be rolling epoxy primer over it today. I will take photos and post maybe tomorrow. I gotta chase down my rollers and stuff first.
_________________
1968 Beetle torn apart again
1990 Jetta GLI megasquirted, burning E85 (currently in storage)
2004 Jetta turbo GLI
Marion, Iowa

[bomberbob]

Photos of my epoxy primer application yesterday. I ran a 60 grit disc on my random orbital to scratch it up enough so the epoxy could get a grip past the black "shipping primer". Wiped it down with wax and grease remover, and then proceeded to roll on the Raptor brand epoxy. Its what I had on hand. I think around 3 coats, I did not bother pouring the paint in the tray, I just poured small amounts of paint on the fender and then rolled it on. I mixed up 5 ounces, I think I might have had one ounce left in the cup after 3 coats on the outside of the fender, and one coat of epoxy on the inside of the fender (using a foam brush).
I will run over it with some wet or dry and knock down some of the texture and ugly spots, then roll on some high build.

Doing this really doesn't save you any time, you are trading one kind of work for another. Instead of using a gun that needs cleaned, and putting plastic over stuff to protect from overspray, and all the other things associated with spraying paint, you will be sanding this texture down instead. I run 6 inch wet or dry discs on my DA, spritz it with water and it knocks down pretty quick. This photo shows what I think is the worst case texture that will need sanded down.

_________________
1968 Beetle torn apart again
1990 Jetta GLI megasquirted, burning E85 (currently in storage)
2004 Jetta turbo GLI
Marion, Iowa

[viiking]

[bomberbob]

I did not mention that, but I have the same problem with neighbors complaining about me working on cars. I painted a fender last year, lady came over and asked me to stop because it was "killing her flowers". Had people call the police because they said I was making too much noise, etc.

Original poster, there are other options, I think Eastwood offers a primer that is rollable, they probably sell a "system" including the paint and the tools. Also note the previous post for West Systems products. Please post what you end up doing along with the results, it might help the next person searching for help.
_________________
1968 Beetle torn apart again
1990 Jetta GLI megasquirted, burning E85 (currently in storage)
2004 Jetta turbo GLI
Marion, Iowa