1980 Cali Westy starting issues

[Wildthings]

[Wildthings]

From your picture it looks like your distributor drive is installed either one tooth or 7 teeth off depending on which TDC compression you are on, #1 or #3.

[LordHuron95]

[borninabus]

i'm sorry man. i don't say these things to be a dick, only to try and help: but this is a real shit show. between your lack of understanding and the possibility of something being majorly screwed up, this is going to be hard to diagnose "over the phone".

how long did this engine sit between rebuild and now?
why aren't the lifters primed?
why do you have another thread discussing bent pushrods and more importantly, why are they bent?
where in california are you and how hard would it be to get someone (again, not being a dick) who knows what they are looking at to put eyes on your engine?

some things are just not making sense here and until they do, there's only so much help to be offered from a keyboard. if you shoot me a PM, i'd be happy to discuss some things over the phone.
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88 Van WBX, A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport

[Xevin]

[LordHuron95]

[LordHuron95]

[quote="Xevin"]

[LordHuron95]

On cylinder 3. I swapped the intake and exhaust lifters. The results came back with opposite valves operating. Before, the intake valve never saw movement. After the swap, it moved while the exhaust port had no movement.
_________________
Never swing a mean loop. Never do dirt to man nor animal.

-1980 Vanagon Westy

[pathao]

[LordHuron95]

[pathao]

[borninabus]

get your lifters all primed and while your rockers are off give all the valves a whack with a brass implement or a piece of hardwood and a regular hammer to make sure they are not stuck. figure out how to definitively set your engine on #1 (and all the rest of the cylinders) TDC. once the lifters are installed, i recommend setting them to 3/4 turn preload, NOT the 2 turns recommended in the manual.

if your pushrods were straight when installed and are now bent, then you more than likely have stuck valves or a cam that is not in time (read: installed incorrectly). if the cam was not installed correctly or the pushrods were installed bent, then that's another story and here's the story: we are all human and we all make mistakes. it's how one handles these mistakes being brought to their attention that separates "good" people from "bad" people.

don't take anything for granted and assume nothing.
contact your builder.
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88 Van WBX, A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport

[Wildthings]

The spring back you are seeing in your lifters is because they are full of air and not oil. If they were once fully primed and then sat the oil may have leaked out and then when the engine was fired up again air in the oil gallery got forced into the lifters filling them with compressed air. The air will make it hard for the lifter to fill on their own, typically until the oil gets nice and hot and thins out considerably.

[LordHuron95]

Working hypothesis right now, is since the oil sensor was installed when I turned the engine over the oil system couldnt "burp" the air, which prevented oil pressure so the rockers got friction which bent the pushrods. This all saying the engine started to seize.
_________________
Never swing a mean loop. Never do dirt to man nor animal.

-1980 Vanagon Westy

[jlrftype7]

[LordHuron95]

I'm not sure about vaseline but I distinctly remember the builder saying he primed the oil pump.

He came by himself earlier today. Said the engine turns easily, it feels good. Said the noise it was making sounded like something was dragging, that it could be felt in the body. Asked if when I bolted the engine to the transmission, if I tightened any bolts to pull the two together. I did for one or two bolts.
He said doing that can cause the flywheel to drag, as these engines are known for. That everything needs to be square, then bolted on. That's probably why it was cranking so slowly.

As for the bent rods, he was scratching his head. He primed the lifters by opening them up and priming with oil. He did not install bent rods, so they bent when I tried starting the engine. He had adjusted the valves and oiled the rockers so those wouldnt have been too tight to cause a bend. My suggestion and he agreed for lack of any other obvious reason, was that maybe the time from him priming the lifters/giving me back the engine was long enough for oil to leak out from the lifters and maybe that caused them to not function as ideally as they should, providing resistance where there shouldnt be. Or not the correct amount. He also said to try straightening them so that they can be used at least as testers, so if they get bent again, it's no loss.

Starting issue: dragging flywheel.

Bent rods: maybe the lifters
_________________
Never swing a mean loop. Never do dirt to man nor animal.

-1980 Vanagon Westy

[Wildthings]

Bent rods would imply that the valve stems were stuck in their guides or that the cam is out of time so the valves and pistons interacted. If you had the lifters adjusted so tight than the valve springs bound, this could bend the rods as well. Another guess is that the lifters leaked down leaving the pushrod sloppy in the lifter cup and the rod fell out of the cup and hung up on the rim of the cup causing the valve train to bind.

[LordHuron95]

[LordHuron95]

After further conversation with my builder:

He checked the rockers when with the van, they move freely

I asked him about maybe the valves being too tight, he said he adjusted them to be loose for break in, shouldnt be them.

I've taken out all 8 lifters and pressed down on each with a pushrod. 7 I could compress to some degree this way. All bounced back to their original resting place. Before install, he disassembled each one, cleaned and oiled them. The only guess is maybe too much oil leaked out before I tried starting the engine...? Not convinced that would cause bent rods though.
Also, one had a bent circlip/retaining clip. Slight bend, but does prevent the plunger in that lifter from coming up fully. 2 or 3 others had a similar mark but no bend. Even if that caused a rod to bend, it doesnt explain why all 8 are bent.

So if valves are good, rockers are good, lifters are good, I'm at a loss why all 8 rods bent!
_________________
Never swing a mean loop. Never do dirt to man nor animal.

-1980 Vanagon Westy

[borninabus]