Bought a 1973 VW Thing, need some feedback! Please…

[lqqkatjon]

that is a nice looking VW thing.

I am not sure I would go and call someone a lier. they maybe, but if you bought it from a dealer and not a VW Thing expert, they probably have no clue what it is, and is only telling you what they looked up and thought it was or was told it was.

I also own an orange 73. the fact that engine tin has the heater vents in the dog house shows something is not 100% stock.

but as for value, mondshine is dead on. it is the entire package that dictates value.. a running/driving thing with the wrong engine is much better then a non running/blown up original.

[cma68]

Thanks Iqqkatjon. Speaking of swap meets, I’m going to the NIVA 17th Annual Indoor VW Parts and Accessories Swap Meet in Wheaton, IL this Sunday.

I’m looking for a set of drip rails for a Thing hard top. Rare and nearly impossible to find…probably. But a got to start somewhere.

[cma68]

[CanStan]

You seem to be unhappy with your purchase, so maybe there are deeper issues than just the engine discrepancy?

From the few pictures you posted, that Thing looks to be in really nice shape. Unless it was sold for a premium price as a 100% original car, I can’t see how a 1500 engine affects the value in any way. But as mentioned, there’s no way of knowing how many times that engine has been rebuilt and how many internal changes were made in the past 58 years, unless you plan to tear it apart.

I see a lot of “issues” with your engine that stand out as incorrect, or at least not original, and very few are related to whether it’s a 1500 or 1600. But if it runs well, I’d be happy to drive that car as-is. After you seal up that tin around the pulley at least.

If my memory is right, there’s something like an 8hp difference between those engines. I doubt most drivers could honestly tell the difference.

If you paid a fair price, and got a fair car, I wouldn’t sweat the issue. There are very few aircooled VW’s that actually have their original engine after all these years, and even fewer that gain any real value from it.

[cma68]

[cma68]

Part zwei

"Zwei" is German for two. However, "dos" might be more appropriate as most if not all 1973-74 Things were imported from Mexico.

Part two gets a lot more involved with the circumstances of the delivery and how amazingly strange that was.

I'll get to it when I have more time.

For now, I am still awaiting my mechanics report on the issues and cost to repair. He is supposed to get to it today.

[wbailey2112]

You need to contact the seller regarding the discrepancies with how the car was described vs what was delivered. I personally would be very hesitant to buy a car like this without seeing it in person. There are plenty of stories of good experiences with buying cars over the internet and also plenty of bad stories.

As for the delivery, did you select the shipper or did the seller? I have only shipped a car once from CA to OH. My daughter selected the shipper, and the car arrived within two days and without any issues except that the carrier could not get to all of the way to my house due to a traffic circle that he could not negotiate with his semi. There are good ones and bad ones out there and like everything else you get what you pay for when it comes to shippers.

Is it also a case of having buyer's remorse over your purchase? I would suggest that you find a local reliable mechanic that knows A/C VWs and pay him to give it a good once over. Maybe that would dispel some or all of the concerns that you have about your purchase.
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'74 Thing
'83 Westfalia

[cma68]

Thanks for the reply. The dealer is a classic car dealership located in Michigan. He has a 100% rating on eBay and his dealership website shows the past vehicles. It showed that he sold 12 air-cooled VWs of which 8 were VW Things. He did arrange the transport.

I agree it is best to view any vehicle in person that you intend to purchase, but the several Things I was interested in stretched from Maine to California. So I relied upon reputation, description, and experience when making my decision. That’s all I can say about that. (dealer experience, not mine!)

The car is currently being worked on by a VW air-cooled specialist and hopefully by this weekend I’ll have the car back running great. Should that happen all is good. I would like the transport company to cover anything that may be wrong with the car that likely happened when reversing polarity. And if the dealership works with me with regard to the misrepresentation of the engine, that would be great also. I’m just hoping for a little good news at this point. Maybe today.

[cma68]

Part 2

When we last left off, the car was out of the trailer and unable to start. I didn't think the battery was the issue as the headlights, taillights and the few on the gauge were all bright. When turning the ignition, nothing happened. No noise, no click, the lights didn't even dim. But, in desperation, I went home to get jumper cables. Maybe the jumper pack may have not been working or was damaged when the polarity was switched... I told the two of them not to touch the car as I went home to get cables.

When I returned I hooked up the cables and I got in the car for the first time since I owned it. Still nothing. It was then that I noticed the handle to the hood latch cable was not connected to the cable. I knew they had been searching for the battery so I asked them if they pulled it. They denied doing so.

So we pushed the car into a parking spot which was about 25 ft. away and required a sweeping left turn to get there. Let me tell you, it handled pretty well. Steering seemed tight, it didn't drift all over and the brakes!!! Oh those brakes, from 1.609344 km/h down to 0.0 km/h without issue and it stopped right on a dime! But that may be the driver more than the car itself.

Back to reality. At this point I was a bit upset. I understand that normally the transport company is not responsible for the mechanical condition of a car when it arrives. I know this because the drivers translator app told me so!!! But that all goes out the window if the driver and assistant decide to play investigative mechanic without the owner present. And since I witnessed them create a spark-n-smoke show inside the car I can't hold them harmless.

It was at that point that I requested the shipping documentation, the transport companies insurance information and a business card. They had nothing. I'm not saying they don't have it, just that they didn't have anything to give me. It was about this point when the driver started using a translator app to talk with me. All the while I was attempting to get the passenger side front door closed. It would click closed but just kept popping back open.

The dealer mentioned to me not to slam the doors closed and even put a note "Don't Slam Doors, Shut Softly" on the window of each front door. Unfortunately, in English only, which wasn't enough to prevent these two from slamming doors. And they weren't paying attention to what I had to say.

He noticed how unhappy I was and contacted his dispatcher. I then began speaking with the dispatcher whom represented himself as the owner. He may or may not have been, but that's what he said he was. He had a thick accent, also Russian sounding but spoke English well.

I told him I would need the shipping documentation, insurance information and a business card. He said I would need to sign for receipt of the vehicle before I could get the information I wanted. I told him several times that I wasn't signing anything. He could load up the car and take it away if need be, but I wasn't signing anything. So the driver began taking pictures of the vehicle and so did I.

The driver asked that I wait while he and the dispatcher/owner speak with each other which took about 20 minutes. When he returned they decided to go on there way without providing me the information I wanted, without me signing for the vehicle and leaving the vehicle were is sat.

I'm going to end part 2 right here for anybody who is still reading this... I'll pick back up with the morning after in Part 3.

[cma68]

Part 3

Ok, so it is the morning after the car was delivered. As I drive into the parking lot where I work, The Thing in all its ORANGE GLORY is there to greet everybody. It is in the first spot right near the front door of the building. However, I notice that the driver side rear door has popped open. Possibly a result of slamming the doors from the night before. I did get it to close before going into work.

I call my regular mechanic which I trust to ask if he works on air-cooled VWs and he let's me know that I would be better off going to a mechanic with experience with air-cooled because he has very little experience with them.

I was aware of another shop in town that specializes in German cars including air-cooled Porches and VWs. So I call them up, and asked if they would be willing to work on the car and if so, what tow company they suggest I use.

The tow truck arrived by 8am and by 8:30 was at the auto repair shop. I knew it would be a week before they could look at it so all I could do is wait.

I did however visit them after work that day to confirm back to the tow company that the car was not damaged in anyway. Which it wasn't. During my visit with the owner of the repair shop, is first comment to me after looking at the engine was that we needed to replace the Amazon carburetor. It is shiny new! He suggested a Weber. I know everyone here has their ideal carb so lets not start an argument. He next mentioned the distributor with dual vacuum. It was then I mentioned that I wanted the vehicle to run reliably and wouldn't be opposed to replacing both the carb and distributor (with electronic ignition). So he showed me around his shop. He was working on a very nice looking 356 Speedster replica, and a Super Beetle. There was another Beetle and a Bus in the lot awaiting their turn. I didn't even notice the Audi's, BMW's and Mercedes vehicles taking up the other bays and in the lot 'cause why? I think there are 6 bays in total as the shop used to be a Tuffy's muffler shop.

The owner was very friendly. I ask him if I could come back the next day to cover the car. I knew it would be out all week and didn't want rain getting in. I know they are meant to get wet but I didn't need a smell on top of everything else. He was ok with that and even offered to dry it off before I put on the cover. It was raining that afternoon so I needed to wait til the morning.

The next day was Good Friday. I was off so I headed over to the shop in the morning preparing to put the cover on the Thing. He stopped me and said as soon as he is finished with the next car he was going to put it inside. Storms were coming and he wanted to store it inside until he got to it. He also mention how surprised he was that his wife loved the car.

So I was off to the DMV for title and registration. I had already visited my insurance agent. THING(s) were looking up.

It was only later that I was told by my VW mechanic that the engine, at least the case was for a 1500. After a little research of my own I found that based on the engine code, it was likely from a 1967.

And that's all I have for now. I will update the story as I learn more.

That ends Part 3.

[77kafer]

I'll be following along with your long story till the end, I say long, because you are already up to Teil drie and it isn't running yet.

There are a couple of Things that are bugging me, you wanted to go get it and drive it home or tow it behind your pick-up but the dealer convinced you to have it shipped. If the dealer was going to pay for the shipping then that doesn't sound bad. In the video from the dealer at a minute forty, Dave says "not much to do, just jump in drive and enjoy it". I wonder why the dealer wanted you to have it shipped.
Not once in the video, or even the photos on ebay was the hood or trunk lid opened. They did show all the doors being closed very gently but they never actually seemed to close correctly.
In one part of the listing it says mileage is 50k, but then in the description it says 80k miles showing TMU.
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Supposed to be 77käfer, but there are no umlauts on an american keyboard

Overheard on 27 June 07, one lady to another when they saw my Harli in a parking lot at West Point, "maybe he found it on the clearance aisle at the Volkswagen dealer"

[KAmes]

I have purchased a number of cars sight unseen through ebay, with varying success (or failure). It's tough, often it's not practical to go look first. My most recent debacle was a 1976 MGB that wasn't as represented, but I'm actually having a lot of fun with that car. It's frustrating but I always think there's a point where what is is so just move forward. It appears you got nice looking car. Like others I wouldn't worry much about having the "right" engine, they are all old. I see glass Thing Shop windows, you'll really like those, and I wonder if that's their top also. It has the right look. Years ago the Thing Shop bought all the remaining original body panel stock from the VW factory in Mexico, possibly or probably the source of your military fenders. That they have been replaced is a good thing in my mind, often rust holes there. I bought a couple from them a few years back. The door latches tend to gunk up with old grease inside and misbehave, you can usually do a lot of good with carb cleaner, spray lube and an oil can. They are super easy to remove. I'm also in Illinois south of you near Decatur. Keep us posted!

[cma68]

KAmes, thanks for sharing that information. I look forward to taking possession of the Thing. I got a hard top for it that needs some work. Picked it up in Ohio a few weeks ago. It is missing the drip rails and a latch. There’s a VW Swap meet this Sunday in Wheaton, IL. Maybe I’ll get lucky.

[cma68]

[cma68]

[Hyatt181]

[cma68]

Part 4

Today I communicated with the dealership via the eBay messaging app. I will paraphrase.

I let the dealership know that there was nothing new to report from the mechanic as of yet but I did want to know their position on the misrepresentation of the engine size.

Their response was something to the effect that the motor in the Thing they sold me looked like the motor in all the other Things they have sold in the past. That they are willing to refund the purchase price if I wanted to ship it back. And that they already dropped the price from $23,900 to help me out.

This response was a bit insulting to me. This was an eBay listing in which I made an offer. My first offer was rejecting and a counter offer received. I countered with another offer for which they accepted. They did not know me, never spoke with me nor know what help if any I might need. So for them to take the position that they “…already dropped the price from $23,900 to help you (me) out….” was an unusual position to take.

I choose to believe it was a well thought out business decision on their part to accept my counter offer, not a personal favor to help me out. So, yes, I was insulted that they would suggest that they accepted my second offer to help me out. It demonstrates a level of disrespect which assumes I will be swayed by their kindness, rather than understanding this was a business decision on their part.

In my response I objected to their assertion that they accepted my offer to help me out and welcomed them to elaborate on how that may be. And let them know that I will keep them posted on any new developments from my mechanic.

I was a bit worked up at this point. So I sent an additional response that I understood it was a mistake to list the vehicle as having a 1600, but is was their mistake.

I let them know that I was hoping we could work together to work this out, and that I may have misinterpreted their response, but that it seems confrontational to me.

My feeling insulted at the offer to refund the purchase price if I shipped the vehicle back considering that I already paid an additional $650 for shipping, $125 for a tow, plus tax, title and license fees in Illinois after the sale. Plus the additional cost for me to ship it back only to be offered the purchase price so that they could sell it again didn’t seem fair, especially after the grief I’ve dealt with to this point. Oh, and I’m sure there are already mechanics fees that will need to be paid. I did not convey this information to them. Only that it felt confrontational.

They responded that they are not trying to be confrontational, just asking for verification of the engine numbers so they can decode them. A photo would suffice….

That was not what I got from their messages. Nowhere did they ask for the engine code. And, since I already texted them the two photos a week ago, the same photos I shared on the forum showing the engine and the engine code, I read into it as a confrontational response. But that’s easy to do when reading texts.

The person responding claimed not to have seen the photos. So I sent them over the eBay messaging system today to further document the developing situation.

About 9 hours after sending the dealer the photos today, I received a response. The dealership confirmed it is a 1500 engine. They said the “H” code 1500cc engine and “B” code 1600cc engine look pretty much identical and only vary by 3 horsepower. They never ran across this scenario before but the good news is the performance difference should be negligible. Based on the error they can see offering me a few hundred dollars if that helps, but he’ll need to speak with the owner in the morning.

I’ve seen the good cop bad cop routine from car salesman before. The salesman wants me to think he’s fighting for me but needs to speak with the manager. He leaves the room, goes into the managers room only to come back with some bone to offer, and I’m supposed to be grateful. I think that’s what’s going on here.

He asked for me to respond with my thoughts. Well, I’ll hold back my thoughts for now. That is until I hear from my mechanic concerning what, if anything, was damaged by the transport company reversing polarity on the battery, and the condition and repairs necessary to the engine itself.

I will follow up here with that information when I get it.

Looks like my paraphrasing took up more space than the messages did themselves. But my reactions to what was stated in the messages was necessary to convey my feelings at the time for a better understanding of my position.

End of part 4.

[sportin-wood]

Man, I'm sorry to hear this. I've done more eBay transactions than I care to admit since around 2000, and have had an occasional bad experience, but never with anything of this value (and keep in mind, I have bought a 1973 VW Squareback for $100!). I hope they have the courtesy to at least reimburse you for something that would cover the cost of a decent motor that you'll be happy with and any other issues that could have come up. Not sure if eBay can step in and assist with following up, but you might look into that if the seller doesn't come through. Best of luck!
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Dave

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1966 Bug project
1973 Thing project
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"Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman. He's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it." --- Jeff Spicoli

[yel-mel]

Did you pay 20k+ for this THING if I may ask ?

[doublecanister]

hey Cma68, You know that 'reversing the polarity" problem....

I'm trying to think, what should that have done to the THING?
Just blow a fuse or a few, or affect the starter solenoid??

I'm not close to mine at the moment to visually go over it,
but It reminded me of something on my wife's 92' toyota paseo, there was a large 85amp fuse that got blown once when that happened to us.

I don't think The Thing has one of those big fuses, so in guessing it could have popped a 20/25amp fuse or If not, it could have got the starter solenoid, even the starter switch.

But just talking the "starting portion" of the wire harness, the switch and solenoid and starter, it's wires, would be
my best guess of what's affected.

I'm sure you or someone has checked all the fuses already?

Anyone that familiar with the wire harness know what is the result of doing this could be besides a fuse?
A quick googly search came back with a starter solenoid issue I found on a 73 beetle that reversed polarity...

I know this is a PITA right now but my "mechanic curiosity" is making me wonder what it would have damaged?
These types of issues (and learning the fix) always help with the 'fix on the side of the road' situations.

I'm sorry for your issue with this but hopefully you can get it sorted out and on the cheap.

Stay on it man and hope it works out for you, please let us know how it goes.


T
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2020 - Mustang Eco Boost [High Performance]
1973 - Thing
1966 - Mustang GT- Fastback
1951 - Ford F1 pickup Flathead V8