| Author |
Message |
scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 3330
Location: Memphis
|
 Posted: Fri May 16, 2025 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: Turn signal oddity |
 |
|
Also, your symptom is exactly what my issue was, and I needlessly chopped up my flasher relay before I found the problem. I took my turn switch apart for paint. When I did, I lost the tiny spring that puts pressure on the sliding contact. The emer flashers worked but the blinkers did not. Didn’t even know the spring had flown out!
The sliding contact has the pulsing 12v signal on it. It has three positions - left blinkers, center off, and right blinkers. The contact needs spring pressure to complete the circuit out to the bulbs via the fixed contacts in the switch.
_________________
Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
aquifer
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2021
Posts: 268
Location: Nebraska
|
| Posted: Fri May 16, 2025 6:12 pm Post subject: Re: Turn signal oddity |
|
|
| scrivyscriv wrote: |
Also, your symptom is exactly what my issue was, and I needlessly chopped up my flasher relay before I found the problem. I took my turn switch apart for paint. When I did, I lost the tiny spring that puts pressure on the sliding contact. The emer flashers worked but the blinkers did not. Didn’t even know the spring had flown out!
The sliding contact has the pulsing 12v signal on it. It has three positions - left blinkers, center off, and right blinkers. The contact needs spring pressure to complete the circuit out to the bulbs via the fixed contacts in the switch. |
If I would have read your suggestion slower and spent a little more time studying the wiring diagram, I probably would have suspected the turn signal switch first. Several months ago I disassembled my turn signal switch to repair the detente (or whatever), and I know the springs you’re talking about. I’m sure I put them all back in place, and it worked fine until the other day, but I wonder if one of the springs got skewed a little bit during reassembly and has fallen out somehow. I will carefully take it apart again and see what I can find out.
_________________
Parts needed:
Front & rear NOS or used OEM door panels for a '67 in the original Gazelle color (dark tan/light brown). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 3330
Location: Memphis
|
| Posted: Fri May 16, 2025 6:36 pm Post subject: Re: Turn signal oddity |
|
|
There are three springs. Two return to center, and the third is under the contact. It’s waaay small. The tiny one is the only spring that can cause this
_________________
Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
aquifer
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2021
Posts: 268
Location: Nebraska
|
| Posted: Fri May 16, 2025 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: Turn signal oddity |
|
|
| scrivyscriv wrote: |
| There are three springs. Two return to center, and the third is under the contact. It’s waaay small. The tiny one is the only spring that can cause this |
As I read this, it didn’t sound like what I remember mine looking like. So I popped it open to take a look. I think my switch is different than yours. Here are a couple of pictures.
I circled the contacts where the springs are that I was thinking might have gotten dislodged somehow. But when I opened it up, everything looked fine. Other than I used too much dielectric grease!
I can’t remove the brown piece where the wires are attached without drilling out the mushroomed peens holding it in place. But the wires seem to be firmly attached. I’m not sure what this is telling me.
_________________
Parts needed:
Front & rear NOS or used OEM door panels for a '67 in the original Gazelle color (dark tan/light brown). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 3330
Location: Memphis
|
| Posted: Fri May 16, 2025 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: Turn signal oddity |
|
|
| aquifer wrote: |
As I read this, it didn’t sound like what I remember mine looking like. So I popped it open to take a look. I think my switch is different than yours. Here are a couple of pictures.
I circled the contacts where the springs are that I was thinking might have gotten dislodged somehow. But when I opened it up, everything looked fine. Other than I used too much dielectric grease!
I can’t remove the brown piece where the wires are attached without drilling out the mushroomed peens holding it in place. But the wires seem to be firmly attached. I’m not sure what this is telling me.
|
I was wrong on the spring layout, sorry - but yes our turn signals are different. What's your production month? Mine is Oct/Nov 1966.
Here's mine:
Mine has the single long brass contact. You can see its spring still in place in the pic. A quick check, hook your switch back up to the wiring, leave the top off. With your flashers on, you should see pulsing 12v on a meter - even a test light will work - at the center brass rivet. I believe you can also check it with the flashers off. With ignition switched on, put a test light on the center rivet again, and see if it flashes. A complete circuit there will allow the flasher relay to start pulsing.
_________________
Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EVfun 
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 6072
Location: Seattle
|
| Posted: Fri May 16, 2025 9:30 pm Post subject: Re: Turn signal oddity |
|
|
| scrivyscriv wrote: |
| EVfun wrote: |
| The problem is, I don't think any of us really know what is inside of the 9 pin turn signal flasher. |
Ooh! Ooh! Teacher! I know this one!! 
Here ya go. This is the guts of a stock 9-pin flasher from my 1967 sunroof beetle. It’s mostly relay logic with some transistor switching and a handful of basic electronic components, but no solid state.
The double relays on one side of the board
And the electronics running ‘em on the other side. It’s a single layer PCB with through-hole mounting, very very easy to work on and repair. I’ve got the failure-prone parts in my digi-key wish list, but since I made a workaround using a pair of relays, the project went back burner.
Component values as indicated by their markings, if anyone is interested. The electrolytic capacitors are the most suspect parts and should be replaced if there’s any doubt to their integrity. There are eight carbon film resistors, one diode, four transistors, three electrolytic capacitors, and one choke or coil (not totally sure of its function at present).
|
Thank you for an excellent post. It looks like what I expected, one 4PDT relay and another relay being used as a flasher with a basic driver circuit on a simple board.
I'm starting to wonder about the turn signal switch. They are known, occasionally, to suffer a sudden failure. But then he takes pictures inside of it, and it looks fine. Also, the fact that switching it causes the flasher indicator to work suggests it is making a connection. All the 3 terminal turn signal switches are is a a basic single pole double throw center off switch (plus a canceling mechanism).
_________________
| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
aquifer
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2021
Posts: 268
Location: Nebraska
|
| Posted: Sat May 17, 2025 7:00 am Post subject: Re: Turn signal oddity |
|
|
Success! I installed a new switch, and it works! I had decided to buy a new oem switch several months ago because it seemed like “real” ones were getting a little hard to find, and the prices were pretty high. So I came across one and squirreled it away for a rainy day. Apparently that day is today.
Anyway, I’m still not sure what is wrong with the offending switch. It looks fine to me, the springs and sliders were in place when I took it apart. I didn’t hook it back up and test as scrivy suggested, but this morning I continuity tested the wires between the spade ends and the brass bumps on the brown circuit board that slide across the switches. All were fine. Beyond that, I think the sliders just complete the circuit between the middle bump and one of the other bumps depending on which direction you put the signal lever. So I can’t imagine what could have happened to make it suddenly stop working.
I’m going to keep the old switch of course, and try to dig into it to educate myself eventually.
So now everything works. The indicator light in the speedometer and the red light in the flasher knob all work as expected.
Scrivy - my production date was 10-31-66. It seems like I read somewhere that there were a few different switch designs but idk if there was any rhyme or reason to which one went in which car. Maybe mine was the last one left over from a batch or something.
Thanks for all of the suggestions and information! Someday I’ll figure out what is wrong with my old one.
_________________
Parts needed:
Front & rear NOS or used OEM door panels for a '67 in the original Gazelle color (dark tan/light brown). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
