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BarryL 
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 15294
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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 Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:47 am Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
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| Who.Me? wrote: |
Does anyone with a second brake switch and pedal pan have any pictures of how they adapted the pan to accommodate the second switch?
I have a pan to fit to my truck but I think it'll need adapting?
Simply cutting a hole seems like it might defeat part of the object of the pan. |
Remind again what year MC you are using? |
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Who.Me?
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2014
Posts: 2549
Location: UK (South)
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:06 pm Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
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I did the conversion a few years ago using an off the shelf kit. The master cylinder is a Varga. Think it might be a bay window unit.
Later I bought a mashed-up pedal pan on ebay for pennies and knocked it back in to shape.
I was hoping not to mess with the MC or switch because I had trouble with it when I did the conversion. I went through two switches and ended up having to use hydraulic thread sealer to stop it weeping.
I'd have plumbed the short line from the Tee in to that port at the time, but it was too short and I didn't have a pedal pan, so it wasn't an issue. With hindsight though, replacing that pipe and swapping the switch and pipe ports rund is probably an easier option than adapting the pan.
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Andy
Looking for info on my truck's history. Are you from Campbell California or nearby. Do you recognise it? ... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636786 |
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BarryL
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 15294
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
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| Just wondered because the '67 master it isn't the brake switch that forces the cutting. Looks like the bay versions have the brake switches hanging down at about 30 or 45 degrees |
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junichi
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2005
Posts: 776
Location: brentwood bay, bc
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
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I am still struggling with a grommet leak in my conversion to late bay Varga MC. I found a tiny burr on the bottle and cleaned that up, and retried as well as trying 2 other grommets. Same leak every time at the front grommet, coming out the top of the grommet at the bottle interface. No issues at the MC to grommet interface. Not sure what to try now...
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1964 Kombi- http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=640048
Sold: 1985 Transporter Doka,1978 Westfalia, 1975 bay x 2, 1986 syncro vanagon, 1965 beetle, 1980 vanagon, 1967 deluxe bus, 1988 golf |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 26109
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
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| junichi wrote: |
| I am still struggling with a grommet leak in my conversion to late bay Varga MC. I found a tiny burr on the bottle and cleaned that up, and retried as well as trying 2 other grommets. Same leak every time at the front grommet, coming out the top of the grommet at the bottle interface. No issues at the MC to grommet interface. Not sure what to try now... |
Might try a different reservoir. If that does not do the job, the MC bore is suspect.
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crofty
Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000
Posts: 19846
Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:47 am Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
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I did this conversion over the weekend with the ISP MC unit. It went in easy and works great.
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Your Vanagon sucks, Stop waving at me.
| HamburgerBrad wrote: |
I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine. |
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crofty
Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000
Posts: 19846
Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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| Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:51 am Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
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| Bruce Amacker wrote: |
FYI I've done it two ways- separate lines to the front two ports going to each front wheel and a single BL switch.
Or, two BL switches on the right side of the MC and a single line going to a tee for the fronts.
It seems like the separate line setup is easier, I spent a lot of time making the "tee" look nice, bolted down, and a grommet where the short line goes through the bulkhead tin. I have better pics if you need them.
It looks like I didn't have the BL switches in here yet:
These are different busses. |
front of MC... where the plunger is toward the front end of the bus? i
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Your Vanagon sucks, Stop waving at me.
| HamburgerBrad wrote: |
I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine. |
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OG Velvet
Samba Family Man
Joined: February 24, 2003
Posts: 2175
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 11:34 am Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
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Many years ago, I replaced my bad original 67 dc mc with the bay window conversion. After restoring my bus, I replaced the bay mc with this original style above. Nothing was wrong with the bay mc, I just wanted my pedal pan to fit back on and go back to original. It braked fine before but now it pulls hard to the left on hard braking. I’ve looked through the obvious and I still can’t figure out what’s wrong....
I bench bled the mc and property bled the system. I have nice strong pedal.
No obvious bad wheel cylinders. No leaking anyway.
All new flex lines and mostly new hard lines.
I’ve gone around and adjusted 2-3 times with no change.
Ideas?
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'67 13 Window
'77 Westy
'69 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Honda Dream |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 26109
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 11:51 am Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
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The bay MC can be fitted with the OG uncut 1955-67 pedal pans. Just mentioning that so if someone else is reading that, and thinking it can not be done. Do totally get the going back to 100% correct stock on the other hand, as long as it does not hamper safety!
Have you removed the drums to inspect? Could be that you have a very slight weep of a wheel cylinder that is causing that side to REALLY grab, or could be one of the wheel cylinders on the other side has a piston stuck rusted causing one shoe to not function properly.
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OG Velvet
Samba Family Man
Joined: February 24, 2003
Posts: 2175
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 11:55 am Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
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Yeah I was thinking that, but why would it be any different than with the other MC?
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'67 13 Window
'77 Westy
'69 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Honda Dream |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 26109
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 12:04 pm Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
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| OG Velvet wrote: |
| Yeah I was thinking that, but why would it be any different than with the other MC? |
Could be just a total fluke that something went pop when you did the MC change.
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OG Velvet
Samba Family Man
Joined: February 24, 2003
Posts: 2175
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| OG Velvet wrote: |
| Yeah I was thinking that, but why would it be any different than with the other MC? |
Could be just a total fluke that something went pop when you did the MC change. |
Well you were right. Lower cylinder on passenger site blew out. Brake fluid all over brake shoes and dust everywhere. No brake fluid made its way onto the wheel where I could see it.
Are my shoes ruined or can I clean with brake cleaner, replace cylinder (I actually had the part in my pile) and move on? I will be getting front disks soon anyway...
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'67 13 Window
'77 Westy
'69 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Honda Dream |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 26109
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
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Brakleen works well to do that. Hang the shoes over some newspapers and spray at least twice. Then just go away and let it all dry while still hung up. Just do not get that cleaner on your skin, it will pull the oils right out and crack it painfully.
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OG Velvet
Samba Family Man
Joined: February 24, 2003
Posts: 2175
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
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All fixed up! Stops on a dime now. Thanks for the help.
For the record, on the 67 only pedal pan, I did have to cut it to fit the bay MC. The brake light switches angle down in the way of the pan. I simply made a couple of clean cuts and slightly bent the tab down. Now I just have to bend it back and weld it up. I was thinking ahead
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'67 13 Window
'77 Westy
'69 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Honda Dream |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 26109
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
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| OG Velvet wrote: |
| The brake light switches angle down in the way of the pan. I simply made a couple of clean cuts and slightly bent the tab down. Now I just have to bend it back and weld it up. I was thinking ahead |
Good that all is well!
As mentioned earlier in this thread, using the one downward pointing port for the piping for the forward brakes gets rid of the need to cut a hole or run without the pedal pan.
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 26109
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 6:07 pm Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
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OG Velvet
Samba Family Man
Joined: February 24, 2003
Posts: 2175
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
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I wish I would have thought of that then...
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'67 13 Window
'77 Westy
'69 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Honda Dream |
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DonVWMiller
Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2019
Posts: 18
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:53 am Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
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I’m doing a total replacement of the system on my early ‘67 which had a single circuit MC and am replacing hardlines, softlines grommets, etc.
Bruce Amacker you do nice work. Two questions:
1) can you post more photos that show your hardline routings? I’m specifically interested in the front to back as my long line from the WW Kit is a a little shorter than original. But would appreciate others you may have as well.
2) it looks like you have rear line connected to front circuit on the MC. Am I seeing that right? I thought I read others on this thread say rear goes to rear port but maybe I have that “bass-ackwards” my MC from WW looks like the one in your photos but I’ve installed it without a spacer and will modify the bolt if needed...seems fine so far but the proof is in the pedal!
Don M.
Bellevue, WA |
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Bruce Amacker
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 1794
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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| Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:29 am Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
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| DonVWMiller wrote: |
Bruce Amacker:
1) can you post more photos that show your hardline routings? I’m specifically interested in the front to back as my long line from the WW Kit is a a little shorter than original. But would appreciate others you may have as well.
2) it looks like you have rear line connected to front circuit on the MC. Am I seeing that right? I thought I read others on this thread say rear goes to rear port but maybe I have that “bass-ackwards” my MC from WW looks like the one in your photos but I’ve installed it without a spacer and will modify the bolt if needed...seems fine so far but the proof is in the pedal!
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Note this is two different busses and up to 4 different MCs, I used the same paint on the bottom of both busses so it's hard for even me to tell which is which. I built both busses with dual MCs then converted both to disc brakes with the AC kit that comes with a DMC so don't get confused by the pics. A tip I can offer for the long line is to thread it through the holes and loosely connect it to the MC and rear T. Get the bends about right and move the body of the line forward/backward before putting the clamps in place. The rear line connects to the flange end of the MC (forward as it's mounted on the bus). Most car guys will call the flange end of the MC the "rear" but it's mounted backwards on a bus so be careful of terminology.  In some of the pics there's a BLS not wired, it's just an extra hole that I used a old BLS to plug the hole. The grommets are split, they go on last. I "think" I used the WW line kit on both busses, but I might have used some different front lines as I stock a lot. The fitting on the MC between the line nut and the body of the MC is a check valve, but AC "modifies" this check valve on the front outlets so it's non-functional. I think they just take an ice pick and stab through it to wreck the rubber valve. 
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'66 Deluxe Bus
'65 Standard Bus
Build threads:
'66- http://www.leakoil.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2888&sid=54d8dedfb3822f99c7f2ea430cb4e856
'65- http://leakoil.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4263 |
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vwsnoopy
Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2008
Posts: 20
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:39 am Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
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After reading all 18 pages, I hope I didn't miss the answer to my questions..
I installed the disc brake kit from CIP1 C13-22-2937 - EMPI - COMPLETE FRONT DISC BRAKE CONVERSION KIT - T2 BUS 64-66 - DESIGNED FOR STOCK SPINDLES ONLY - SOLD COMPLETE KIT WITH MASTER CYLINDER https://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C13-22-2937
Is the residual check valve required? It also came with a short brake line (less than a foot). These are the two parts I had leftover after following the directions.
I also bought the C13-18-1033 - EMPI - MASTER CYLINDER & RESERVOIR KIT - BUS WITH DISC BRAKES 73-79 - (ALSO FOR BUS WITH DISC CONVERSION) https://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C13-18-1033 as the disc brake kit above came with a single master cylinder.
Neither kit came with the "T"
If I do use the "T" so I can get two brake light switches. Do you use the stock splitty 2 prong or bay 3 prong? How would you wire them up as I only have one plug.
This is all on a 65 Deluxe. |
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