Turbo Ghia More Air

[Michaellatini]

Oprn,

The header is 41 inches from exhaust ports to collector, made the them same to keep cylinder temps even, and 12 inches up to the turbo. I also had it coated by, Jet Hot. It's fairly thick and keeps heat into the pipes. I will have to hit that with the laser gun tonight and see. Never checked them, that I can remember.

Thank you,

M

[clonebug]

There's not enough difference in a tuned exhaust to justify the cost in my opinion.
If you are trying to win races it might be worth it but for a daily driver or weekend warrior it won't matter.
You can more than make up for it just by cranking up the boost a little more because........you know you'll want to.....it's an addiction.......
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[oprn]

[slalombuggy]

I know you have a lot of time and effort in your exhaust but that would be the first thing I would change and get the turbo out of the engine compartment.

If you're worried about the oil drain, put a small sump on your engine and drain into that. I have a Berg 4qrt sump on mine and put my drain line into that.

On my turbo engine, i used a fairly long barrel cooler but they make shorter ones. If you used a shorter one and mounted it right off the turbo you could keep everything hidden and get rid of a lot of heat in the engine compartment. A large water reservoir behind the seat and a radiator/fan under the rear would create efficient cooling.

[Michaellatini]

[quote="clonebug"]There's not enough difference in a tuned exhaust to justify the cost in my opinion.

Thank you, CB for your input. You have a valid point for you.

I have had a few conversations with Al Nimmo whom owns, ptturbo.com He is top notch when it comes to turbocharging and horsepower. He advised me on my build and his instructions were, equal length headers, turbo on collector, which I couldn't do and that gives up a little power of course, a custom cam shaft grind, and 9psi without intercooler, 15psi with. This will provide excellent hp, and drive ability with better head temps and without revving the engine past 5000rpm and wearing everything out exponentially.

The extra cost of pipe and elbows was $55.

He went head-to-head with CB Performance in 1989 for an article in Hot VW mag. CB had a 2033 with 14psi, and made 168 rwhp @ 5600rpm. Nimmo had a 1776 with 4.5psi, yes, 4.5psi, and made 134 rwhp @ 4600.

The temp difference between the cylinders is significant but, in a water-cooled engine it's not a problem at all. Air cooled is another story so, I went with the equal length headers because, I drive long distances (200+miles) at 60-65mph. When I do step on it, low boost for now, it comes on at 1800 to 2000rpm and pulls hard to nearly 5000rpm. More conducive to street driving imho.

M

[Michaellatini]

^^^This right here is the actual down to earth practical truth! Not one auto manufacturer to my knowledge ever bothered with a tuned exhaust on a turbo production car.

Thank you, Oprn for your info.

Yes, that's most likely true but, they aren't air cooled.

As for equalizing cylinder temps? I don't know to be frank. There could be something in that, for the 8 or 10 seconds it's on serious boost. These are light cars and that kind of power doesn't get used for very long before you are doing some pretty impressive speed![/quote]

Yes again but, most of my driving is on the highway and since my engine spends all that time around 3200 to 3700 cruising, it's better for engine life.

[Michaellatini]

[quote="slalombuggy"]I know you have a lot of time and effort in your exhaust but that would be the first thing I would change and get the turbo out of the engine compartment.

If you're worried about the oil drain, put a small sump on your engine and drain into that. I have a Berg 4qrt sump on mine and put my drain line into that.

Thank you, SB for the info. Maybe the end result as I would love to not have to keep the engine lid propped up. I will probably go with water/alcohol injection before I try the different header/turbo location.

M

[clonebug]

W/I will be perfect capable of handling your IAT’s at 15 lbs and under.
I started having detonation issues at about 20 lbs with only W/I in the summer months.
Once I used the dual nozzles and intercooler all my detonation issues were taken care of. I do have lower advance at full boost but it’s all in the ignition map.
Only when ambient temps get over 80-100 degrees do I need to use some IAT retard for safety. It will also cause some detonation at cruise in very hot conditions and the IAT retard handles that well. I do run about 38 degrees advance at cruise.
Most of my driving is local PNW weather but the California trips require adjustment.
I do have EBC and can cut boost to wastegate pressure of 6.0 lbs and drive anywhere and have 113 whp. with no cares.

It never hurts to have a failsafe when pushing the envelope a bit..
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[Michaellatini]

Clonebug,

I read this and need a bit more information, please.

You can build W/I system fairly cheap.....well maybe a few years ago....
I bought nozzles from Devil's Own. I picked up some stainless Solenoids off Ebay.....make sure they hold shut in vacuum.
I bought a Shurflo 8000 series pump and cranked it to 120 lbs. It worked great for many years until I upgraded to a Devil's Own 300 psi pump for $140.00.

What type solenoids, a part number or picture will be helpful. Are they solenoids to let water flow or turn the pump on?

Can I use a rotary fuel pump at 90 psi? Have and extra laying around.

Thanks again,

M

[Dauz]

Production turbo cars don't have long tube headers to tune. The turbine attaches to a cast iron manifold. Generally, the bigger diameter piping on the exhaust outlet, the better. You want zero backpressure. But of course there are noise regulations, smog and emissions, etc.

[clonebug]

[Michaellatini]

Not sure what kind of rotary pump you have but any fuel pump will seize in short order running water through it.

It has to be a fairly high pressure water pump in order to mist the water mix. I did use the 8000 series Shur-Flo with good results. It cycled between 120 and 40 lbs. due to the fact it had a pressure shutoff that was adjustable up to 120 lbs.
The Devils Own pump has an internal pressure bypass so it runs as soon as the Hobbes switch activates the solenoid and pump.
I have one relay activate the pump with the first Hobbes switch and first solenoid and the second Hobbes switch activates the second solenoid,
Solenoid #1 feeds a 1.0 gph. nozzle at 5.0 lbs. boost and Solenoid #2 feeds a second nozzle at 2.0 gph for a total of 3.0 gph.

Some pics......Solenoids....just some Ebay Stainless 12 volt units that are vacuum capable and cost around $25.00 each.

Hobbes switches...pressure adjustable from 4.0 -25.0 lbs... prices have gone up...Hobbes sold out and now they are a different name......Mine are ground activated.


Thank you again for the information! Looks quiet involved. Yeesh!

Now that the weather is turning cool again, I can work on this for the spring. I say that because, I opened the bottom of the engine lid mentioned earlier and it helped a good bit.
This weekend I propped up the front of the engine lid and, Whoa! Couldn't get the air intake temps above 100 and the coolant temps above 160 cruising and 190 at WOT.

I found 2 issues with both ends of the lid open. First, the car darts around in wind gusts. Worse, with the window or windows open, the exhaust is somehow coming in thru the windows. Close them and problem solved but, I like the windows open so, will close the bottom of the lid and see what that gives me.

M

[oprn]

Yup! You have an air flow issue to solve! Remember that the air that comes into the engine compartment has to have a way out, you can't just dead head it. You also have to think about volumes. The air going will be cool but going back out it is hot and has expanded to a much larger volume. Your outlet might have to be up to twice the size of your inlet. Some of the air coming in will be going out past the cylinders but that will not be enough.
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old!

[Michaellatini]

[oprn]

It will supercharge the engine fan to some degree and there will be more air flow through the engine cooling system. I expect though that it will do little to nothing for the intercooler, it will be sitting in dead air with nothing flowing through it. Now if you could build a shroud on the bottom side of it and duct it below the car that would be a different thing altogether! There would be a positive airflow through it top to bottom.
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old!

[Michaellatini]

[oprn]

This is what the stock TDI one looks like. Doesn't have to be fancy, just something to seal up the backside and direct the air out through the wheel well or the gravel pan behind the wheel well. A positive flow path rather than the air just swirling around the intercooler with no real direction or purpose. Higher pressure in the engine bay to a lower pressure under the car.

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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old!

[Michaellatini]

Thanks again for your assistance. I'm guessing the air come through the cooler and out the side with the shroud.
M

[oprn]

On this one the shroud actually meets up with a hole in the bumper and it dumps air into the wheel well area. So the shroud is on the inlet side but there is no reason it won't work the other way around too. The idea is to isolate the high pressure side from the low pressure side to direct flow through the core.

The way you have it now there is nothing to make that air go through the core and air is lazy, it won't go through on it's own. Clonebug found that out when he first mounted his intercooler so he added a fan. That of course is another option but you still need to get that hot air out of the engine bay so it won't be sucked into the engine cooling fan. That is why I suggested a shroud on the outlet side.

The Subarus have a hole in the hood and a weather seal that fits on top of the intercooler to take high pressure air from the windshield/hood area down through the intercooler and it just exits down toward the transmission into the low pressure area under the car.

My Dodge Cummins has the intercooler it front of the rad support so the rad support acts as the divider between the high pressure area in front of the truck and the low pressure area in the engine bay to get air to flow through. The problem with our air cooled engines is that these sort of devices are at the back of the car and not out front in the wind like front engine cars so it take a bit more ingenuity to get proper airflow.
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old!

[Michaellatini]

Cool! Thank you, Oprn. Pardon the pun!

M