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wagen19
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2007
Posts: 888
Location: germany
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 Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2025 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: Stolen cars for sale on FB Marketplace |
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I´m far away from America and only thinking...
Any stranger has no clue what´s exactly going on there.
But WHAT do you want NOW, the cars (back, to which place?) or money?
The cars are movable property. Are they now abandoned, stolen, robbed or maybe a victim of embezzlement?
But I softly suggest, before calling someone "thief", you should be able to present some solid arguments of evidence of ownership, or...
or you can only win the second prize.
Positive thinking, all the historic paperwork for that cars, you may have on hand, all that can be interesting for the persons, who "have" the cars now. With luck, you can sell it to them.
Title, contracts, documents, witness statements, old pics with cars, licence plates, invoices related to cars, parts and persons, etc.?
Thinking about payment of tax, insurance etc.
Bad luck would be, if you have nothing in hand. If it had been my job to clean up a site, and suddenly a for me unknown guy comes along, claiming the cars were his property and he wants them, I had said, hey stop my friend and had asked my client, what to do.
It´s claimed, later on, a trailer also had been stolen and it´s also claimed, by known, either named or specific persons you have talked to. Can you doubtless identify that person, or persons? Have you pics on your smartphone of the thieves or your trailer in place there? Is there a police report for the stolen trailer?
Sorry, it´s hard to say, but it´s also possible, the cars and parts had been your father´s property, but he didn´t want, you get them ever. |
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wagen19
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2007
Posts: 888
Location: germany
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2025 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: Stolen cars for sale on FB Marketplace |
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| Martin Southwell wrote: |
| Note for Everett - Could we close this thread down please. It's not what this site is intended for. I know that others have previously written to you requesting the same, so why is it still 'live'? It's not constructive, and certainly not going to achieve anything. |
Hello to all, there are pros and cons and it´s interesting what all can happen, when you buy or sell a car witout title or documents and maybe try to bring it on the road again with a regular registration.
I could tell a interesting personal story about a car without title, I purchased from a lawyer and years later, the original title popped up and I was contacted by the police. |
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EverettB 
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 72003
Location: Phoenix 602
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2025 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: Stolen cars for sale on FB Marketplace |
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I think it's worth discussing but as I posted above, laws vary by US state and honestly if the guy has any sort of case, a police report should have been done and it may be lawyer time.
He may have a case against the current vehicle owners.
He may have a case against the home buyer/real estate agent depending on what the home sales contract stated.
If it's not in writing, you are most likely SOL.
_________________
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wagen19
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2007
Posts: 888
Location: germany
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2025 3:42 am Post subject: Re: Stolen cars for sale on FB Marketplace |
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| EverettB wrote: |
I think it's worth discussing but as I posted above, laws vary by US state and honestly if the guy has any sort of case, a police report should have been done and it may be lawyer time.
He may have a case against the current vehicle owners.
He may have a case against the home buyer/real estate agent depending on what the home sales contract stated.
If it's not in writing, you are most likely SOL. |
"He may have a case"... is one thing, imo, more important is, maybe a third party or person who owns or will find the title of one of that cars in future can have a case and starts asking where the car is.
Thinking about expensive pre war cars in Germany, owned by jewish people...
Old original titels not along a purchase of an interesting vehicle are a risk!
What would anyone here do after a find of a Hebmuller title or something like that in oldpaper collection???
Suggest to try hard to find the real pre owner and get the original title. If necessary pay for it. |
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ryans65
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2016
Posts: 1379
Location: Yulee FL
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2025 6:16 am Post subject: Re: Stolen cars for sale on FB Marketplace |
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| Just out of curiosity did the split ever reappear anywhere? |
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wagen19
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2007
Posts: 888
Location: germany
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| Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2025 5:06 am Post subject: Re: Stolen cars for sale on FB Marketplace |
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| kdf38 wrote: |
| vwcooker wrote: |
No title in owners name
No written agreement for a time line to get the cars
When a house sell or foreclosed on at the time of settlement everything left becomes the new owner’s property to do whatever that want with.
The house has been resold since all this even took place
The guys that got the cars were paid to clean the property which give them the right to do whatever they want with the cars and or trash that’s being removed
Cut and dry the cars we’re not stolen the property owner gave up the right to get the cars off the property by selling the property and not taking them with him.
If they were stolen where’s the police report?
The cars had sat in that yard for probably 30 years not like anything positive was ever goin to happen to them anyway. |
I went to the house to move my VW parts. The access to them was blocked by the people there. I specifically told them about my arrangement and intent to recover the items. One of the first things they stole from me was a trailer that I put there so that I could start moving my items.
They knew I was coming for the cars when they cleared my access path. I specifically informed the foreman.
The people who gave you a bill of sale did so illegally.
If they gave you a title when they sold the car, what state was it from? |
The TRAILER:
I assume, it has a known VIN, was actually registered, had a license plate, was insured, taxed, so the owner, user or thief could easily be identified and located by the police.
It seems, a agreement that the trailer (and maybe other cars with less patina and parts beside the split) was at that private location was at laest "limited" for a (unknown) period of time.
If there is no police report of a "stolen trailer", so even less for the cars and parts, independent of ownership or existing or not titles under actual and local laws, I assume.
If the official ownership for the trailer is gone by the opinion of the police and according to actual local law, especially the parts and cars are most probably blown in the wind. (I only assume again, I´m no lawyer!)
But as reported in older post, to sell original documents can be the second prize.
Or buy the material (back?), if it makes sense for you. |
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ryans65
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2016
Posts: 1379
Location: Yulee FL
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| Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2025 8:00 am Post subject: Re: Stolen cars for sale on FB Marketplace |
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| trailers are pretty loosely regulated in the US with some states not even requiring tags or registration even for a car trailer, most states dont even require a separate policy for a trailer it simply follows whatever policy you have for your tow vehicle |
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wagen19
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2007
Posts: 888
Location: germany
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| Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2025 1:05 pm Post subject: Re: Stolen cars for sale on FB Marketplace |
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| ryans65 wrote: |
| trailers are pretty loosely regulated in the US with some states not even requiring tags or registration even for a car trailer, most states dont even require a separate policy for a trailer it simply follows whatever policy you have for your tow vehicle |
Aha, thanks.
Does that mean, a stolen trailer is not worth a police report in the USA or at least in some states? |
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wagen19
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2007
Posts: 888
Location: germany
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2025 3:00 am Post subject: Re: Stolen cars for sale on FB Marketplace |
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| ryans65 wrote: |
| trailers are pretty loosely regulated in the US with some states not even requiring tags or registration even for a car trailer, most states dont even require a separate policy for a trailer it simply follows whatever policy you have for your tow vehicle |
Just found that
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=abandoned+cars+houston+texas
For private property:
If a vehicle is abandoned on private property, the process for claiming it involves obtaining an "Abandoned Title" by following specific documentation and notification procedures with the TxDMV.
https://www.txdmv.gov/motorists/buying-or-selling-a-vehicle/abandoned-vehicles
For the american average Joe., I assume.
Not knowing whether a trailer has or needs a title or VIN.
Also not knowing how to regard parted out vehicles and frames with VIN.
At least, in the classifieds here, you can find some orientation for market prizes for cars, shells and parts, if the "officials" are interested.
Since when, from whom, ownership, documents, pics?
To continue about cars:
The "cars" here in question are vehicles needing a title, at least have had one and that for sure.
It seems, they had been taken away without agreement with (pre-) owner, without title and without "Abandoned Title" along. It seems, in this case a "Abandoned Title" if the location Houston Texas is correct, was needed and is not there. The cars were resold for some serious money (info samba), so they were not "junk" without value. People who deal with old cars in Houston are expected to know about and the correct way to handle. Why was a "abandoned Title" not on the table before picking up the cars and when while reselling them later? If all is and had been correct, it had been very easy to obtain that kind of "official title". With such an actual and clear title, the value of that cars is much higher.
There seems to be something rotten, not only in the state of Denmark.
Wild West or do better Law and Order? |
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wagen19
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2007
Posts: 888
Location: germany
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2025 7:55 am Post subject: Re: Stolen cars for sale on FB Marketplace |
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| kdf38 wrote: |
| Sorry, they are stolen. The buyer gave me until the end of the year to get them out. When I found out they had jumped the gun, I specifically told the people on site and the people in charge of them that I had until the end of the year to move what I wanted, and that they could not have any of the VW items. They stole them. |
It seems...
if this is true, imo, that can be regarded as a "agreement" between the "buyer" and "kdf38" to get all VW cars and VW parts out, independent from existing or not existing titles or otherwise maybe unclear ownership directed to completly all VW items there. Maybe in the house buyers eyes, all these items had been regarded as "total junk without any value". Of course, HE was Wrong, but eventually he really didn´t know better. kdf38 had put his trailer on that ground, as a clear sign, he was willing to remove the items. (If kdf38 had said the truth) About one month before the timeline was finished, it was made impossible for kdf38 to get the (his) items out.
Maybe the "buyer" of the house had made a mistake, because he knows very little to nothing about old VW vehicles, parts and their value on market. Eventually his private insurance can or must help here. (just one idea)
The "car dealer" after, he had clearly recognized the value of cars and items. HE knew, a "Abandoned Title" was necessary by law to handle the cars and sell them. (for serious money)
Suggestion for peace and contentment:
write and sum up all of your items for a halfway moderate price.
Offer all your documents and titles related to that cars and items. (demo pics)
and offer and show that list to...
(to avoid costs for a lawyer and to avoid unproductive discussions with (related to old VW´s) maybe not too competent police officers, try to go the direct way)
Maybe the "new car owners" are willing and prepared to pay their "contribution for peace" to recieve the old original titles and eventually some more documents related to "their" new cars.
The very best (imo) would be, the new "owners" could obtain the original titles, you get some serious money, all participants not more than a "blue eye", an interesting experiance and (I can´t get no) SATISFACTION.
Let´s make the world better and create peace and fun!
Good Luck! |
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scottyrocks
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2016
Posts: 3003
Location: Thornton, CO
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2025 12:44 pm Post subject: Re: Stolen cars for sale on FB Marketplace |
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Well, actually, it is constructive on how not to handle a situation like this.
_________________
“If you care for a thing long enough, it takes on a life of its own, doesn't it? Mending old things, preserving them, looking after them – on some level there's no rational grounds for it.”
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Zwitterkafer
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2007
Posts: 1026
Location: Lanark County, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2025 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: Stolen cars for sale on FB Marketplace |
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Too late now, but well over two years ago, a free consultation with the real estate lawyer associated with the home sale could have cleared up everyone's rights and obligations in this matter.
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wagen19
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2007
Posts: 888
Location: germany
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2025 11:48 pm Post subject: Re: Stolen cars for sale on FB Marketplace |
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| Zwitterkafer wrote: |
| Too late now, but well over two years ago, a free consultation with the real estate lawyer associated with the home sale could have cleared up everyone's rights and obligations in this matter. |
As long as the cars exists and also the titles, imo, there are "open possible cases". With a good will, a really good solution can be found now.
Transfering or selling a car with VIN, but without any kind of title and against the declared and known will of the pre owner is not good for the "own press" and reputation.
So a quiet solution without police or court, can be the very best one, still today. |
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finster
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2012
Posts: 10592
Location: not far from the madding crowd
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| Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2025 2:32 am Post subject: Re: Stolen cars for sale on FB Marketplace |
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| scottyrocks wrote: |
| Well, actually, it is constructive on how not to handle a situation like this. |
this x2
1 - make sure you have clear documentary proof of ownership that ties in with the vehicle
2 - get any agreement in writing preferably signed/witnessed by all parties involved
there's nothing more to say really unless we hear from the op or find out what became of the cars...
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nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect... |
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esde
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007
Posts: 6406
Location: central rust belt
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| Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2025 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: Stolen cars for sale on FB Marketplace |
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| finster wrote: |
there's nothing more to say really unless we hear from the op or find out what became of the cars... |
It appears the cars were bought by Cookers VW in Maryland
https://www.cookersvdubs.com
| kdf38 wrote: |
| vwcooker wrote: |
No title in owners name
No written agreement for a time line to get the cars
When a house sell or foreclosed on at the time of settlement everything left becomes the new owner’s property to do whatever that want with.
The house has been resold since all this even took place
The guys that got the cars were paid to clean the property which give them the right to do whatever they want with the cars and or trash that’s being removed
Cut and dry the cars we’re not stolen the property owner gave up the right to get the cars off the property by selling the property and not taking them with him.
If they were stolen where’s the police report?
The cars had sat in that yard for probably 30 years not like anything positive was ever goin to happen to them anyway. |
I went to the house to move my VW parts. The access to them was blocked by the people there. I specifically told them about my arrangement and intent to recover the items. One of the first things they stole from me was a trailer that I put there so that I could start moving my items.
They knew I was coming for the cars when they cleared my access path. I specifically informed the foreman.
The people who gave you a bill of sale did so illegally.
If they gave you a title when they sold the car, what state was it from? |
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wagen19
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2007
Posts: 888
Location: germany
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2025 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Stolen cars for sale on FB Marketplace |
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| esde wrote: |
| finster wrote: |
there's nothing more to say really unless we hear from the op or find out what became of the cars... |
It appears the cars were bought by Cookers VW in Maryland
https://www.cookersvdubs.com
| kdf38 wrote: |
| vwcooker wrote: |
No title in owners name
No written agreement for a time line to get the cars
When a house sell or foreclosed on at the time of settlement everything left becomes the new owner’s property to do whatever that want with.
The house has been resold since all this even took place
The guys that got the cars were paid to clean the property which give them the right to do whatever they want with the cars and or trash that’s being removed
Cut and dry the cars we’re not stolen the property owner gave up the right to get the cars off the property by selling the property and not taking them with him.
If they were stolen where’s the police report?
The cars had sat in that yard for probably 30 years not like anything positive was ever goin to happen to them anyway. |
I went to the house to move my VW parts. The access to them was blocked by the people there. I specifically told them about my arrangement and intent to recover the items. One of the first things they stole from me was a trailer that I put there so that I could start moving my items.
They knew I was coming for the cars when they cleared my access path. I specifically informed the foreman.
The people who gave you a bill of sale did so illegally.
If they gave you a title when they sold the car, what state was it from? |
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Professional and serious people with money and character can solve that kind of problems. Lowballers not. |
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pondoras box
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2004
Posts: 1939
Location: Warren, PA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2025 11:55 am Post subject: Re: Stolen cars for sale on FB Marketplace |
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If they are stolen then you have a police report and they have been entered into NCIC. With out a title or bill of sale or in your case a document showing that your father indeed intend for the cars to go to you. On top of that your father needs to be able to prove ownership. It is illegal to sell a car in most states without a title. Junkyards can not even take one without a title for free or even if you pay them.
So unless you have this proof of ownership you’re not the owner of the cars. If your father’s estate has the titles but no will then the cars might wind up in probate. Especially if you have siblings contesting ownership.
The owner of the house accepts the conditions of the house at closing to include any abandoned property. After 30 days, in every state I’ve lived in, there is pathways to obtaining a title on abandoned cars. I’ve had to do it twice and it is not hard to do. So you may have zero legal claim to these cars now.
I know this is not what you want to hear and accept. But it is the law. No title the car isn’t yours, because there is a title on file somewhere for every vehicle. Yes I know some states like Georgia and New York have registrations prior to 72 but the effect is still the same.
Coming from someone that has had some rare cars stolen, it can even be a tough process to recover your property when you do have a valid title.
I hope everything works out for you and please keep us posted. But I think conjecture at this point by people including the OP is pretty counterproductive.
Only the OP has the facts to the points made here by others and myself. He doesn’t seem willing to verify these facts. So either you or your family has the proper documentation or you don’t. Start there.
_________________
Looking for anything from Hal Casey Motors out of Hamburg New York, from license plate surrounds to matchbooks.
1961 23 Window (Bobo)
1965 11 Window (Zelda). https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=563183
1965 13 Window (Lucas)
1957 Oval ragtop
1960 hardtop
1964 hardtop
1965 hardtop (Arschloch)
1973 standard bug (Dirty Gertie)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=804912
1988 Cabriolet VR6 conversion |
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cory464
Samba Member
Joined: November 25, 2010
Posts: 682
Location: kokomo in
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| Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2025 4:08 am Post subject: Re: Stolen cars for sale on FB Marketplace |
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| every state has a method of removing junked vehicles from your property. most revolve around showing ownership of the property and obtaining a certificate of salvage. or simply removing them. to the property owner these were abandoned vehicles. to the state these were abandoned. the line of ownership is not unbreakable. courts can issue ownership documents. as long as you can prove ownership, a title can be issued. |
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cory464
Samba Member
Joined: November 25, 2010
Posts: 682
Location: kokomo in
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| Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2025 4:12 am Post subject: Re: Stolen cars for sale on FB Marketplace |
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| wagen19 wrote: |
| ryans65 wrote: |
| trailers are pretty loosely regulated in the US with some states not even requiring tags or registration even for a car trailer, most states dont even require a separate policy for a trailer it simply follows whatever policy you have for your tow vehicle |
Just found that
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=abandoned+cars+houston+texas
For private property:
If a vehicle is abandoned on private property, the process for claiming it involves obtaining an "Abandoned Title" by following specific documentation and notification procedures with the TxDMV.
https://www.txdmv.gov/motorists/buying-or-selling-a-vehicle/abandoned-vehicles
For the american average Joe., I assume.
Not knowing whether a trailer has or needs a title or VIN.
Also not knowing how to regard parted out vehicles and frames with VIN.
At least, in the classifieds here, you can find some orientation for market prizes for cars, shells and parts, if the "officials" are interested.
Since when, from whom, ownership, documents, pics?
To continue about cars:
The "cars" here in question are vehicles needing a title, at least have had one and that for sure.
It seems, they had been taken away without agreement with (pre-) owner, without title and without "Abandoned Title" along. It seems, in this case a "Abandoned Title" if the location Houston Texas is correct, was needed and is not there. The cars were resold for some serious money (info samba), so they were not "junk" without value. People who deal with old cars in Houston are expected to know about and the correct way to handle. Why was a "abandoned Title" not on the table before picking up the cars and when while reselling them later? If all is and had been correct, it had been very easy to obtain that kind of "official title". With such an actual and clear title, the value of that cars is much higher.
There seems to be something rotten, not only in the state of Denmark.
Wild West or do better Law and Order? |
most states will issue a certificate of salvage. the requirements to prove ownership are much lower. if a vehicle is on your property and considered abandonned you can apply for a certiciate of salvage. this gives you the right to resell the vehicle. |
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wagen19
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2007
Posts: 888
Location: germany
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| Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2025 4:57 am Post subject: Re: Stolen cars for sale on FB Marketplace |
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| cory464 wrote: |
| wagen19 wrote: |
| ryans65 wrote: |
| trailers are pretty loosely regulated in the US with some states not even requiring tags or registration even for a car trailer, most states dont even require a separate policy for a trailer it simply follows whatever policy you have for your tow vehicle |
Just found that
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=abandoned+cars+houston+texas
For private property:
If a vehicle is abandoned on private property, the process for claiming it involves obtaining an "Abandoned Title" by following specific documentation and notification procedures with the TxDMV.
https://www.txdmv.gov/motorists/buying-or-selling-a-vehicle/abandoned-vehicles
For the american average Joe., I assume.
Not knowing whether a trailer has or needs a title or VIN.
Also not knowing how to regard parted out vehicles and frames with VIN.
At least, in the classifieds here, you can find some orientation for market prizes for cars, shells and parts, if the "officials" are interested.
Since when, from whom, ownership, documents, pics?
To continue about cars:
The "cars" here in question are vehicles needing a title, at least have had one and that for sure.
It seems, they had been taken away without agreement with (pre-) owner, without title and without "Abandoned Title" along. It seems, in this case a "Abandoned Title" if the location Houston Texas is correct, was needed and is not there. The cars were resold for some serious money (info samba), so they were not "junk" without value. People who deal with old cars in Houston are expected to know about and the correct way to handle. Why was a "abandoned Title" not on the table before picking up the cars and when while reselling them later? If all is and had been correct, it had been very easy to obtain that kind of "official title". With such an actual and clear title, the value of that cars is much higher.
There seems to be something rotten, not only in the state of Denmark.
Wild West or do better Law and Order? |
most states will issue a certificate of salvage. the requirements to prove ownership are much lower. if a vehicle is on your property and considered abandonned you can apply for a certiciate of salvage. this gives you the right to resell the vehicle. |
Aha!
That sounds logic and serious!
Also still interesting, what about the "stolen trailer"...where is it now, back again, police report?
Now the question is, is there a old title (somehere), a new "certificate of salvage", something else, or "NOTHING" for the Feb 49 split and the other cars.
For my understanding so far, any kind of title, certificate of salvage, contract, bill of sale, invoice or agreement is needed by law, when you buy or sell a car that is not sent directly into crusher.
If any document is needed by law and is not there, to be shown on the table, anyone must have made an error and now someone(s) must be responsible for that.
That can mean, vehicles back and or payment of damages, if not more... |
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