Coil discussion

[lurkinstock]

Looks ilke Porsche 51' to 55 ' 6 volt
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" Southern Comfort Vintage Volks "
**The Grand Ole Dubs of the South**
52 split
59 single cab

[qwerty]

from

Datecode 3R = March 1960 so probably from replacement part stock

[Frederik]

Bosch blue coil TK6 A4, date stamp 1H (january 1952). TK6A4 in bakelite.

Bosch blue coil TK6 A4, date stamp 12H (december 1952). TK6A4 staped in the end metall.

So that change (and probably for other coil models as well) happend somewhere in the year 1952.

The Bosch sticker is the early type with just "BOSCH" on it, later it got "BOSCH", "6 Volt" and "GERMANY IMPORTE D'ALLEMAGNE".

[joe h.]

Reviving this old thread.

I'm considering restoring this old blue coil, and running it on my Okrasa, but I can't figure out what it came on. Everything I see has the TK6 A3 as a black coil. Anyone have any info?

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[EverettB]

TE6A3 thread:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=101975

They are not blue though.

It looks like a date code of M.
M = 1956
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[Frederik]

Bosch coils from 1947 bosch parts book. Not vw specific but thought it could be interesting for some to add it here.

Note the differens for TE6/3 and TE6/1 is that the later have connection 16.

[Frederik]

[tasb]

I introduced this coil back on page three but it didn’t get any traction, so revisting.

It’s labeled TL 6/1 which makes it 1948 and prior. According to data on this topic. The makers logo is a Bosch like B inside a larger M. I know from earlier distributor research that Bosch had to partner with allied countries when producing items during the years between the wars. Any thoughts on what the M would might designate?

The coil is fairly crudely constructed with the long overlapping seam running the length of the coil. It still has a nice spark with a primary resistance of 0.8 ohms and a secondary resistance of 6,800 ohms.
Anyone have any thoughts on the origin of this coil?
The terminal markings are 1 and 15 which is typical for German coils. Did other European countries follow the same convention or was it just Germany? The mounting holes line up perfectly with early coil brackets. There is a five pointed star on the face of the coil bracket. In the center of the star are the letter AVP. Seems like this would be significant.

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Roads Scholar
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018

1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc

1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse

Member# 2059

[johnshenry]

Is there a date code on one of the mounting bolt flanges?
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John Henry

'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab

[tasb]

I’ve scoured the thing for a date code to no avail. I will check the flanges carefully once again. Would it be on the outside as mounted or the inside?

Thinking of stripping the paint on it as I’m doubtful that it is original.
_________________
Roads Scholar
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018

1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc

1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse

Member# 2059

[tasb]

After stripping paint off the bracket a date code did materialize. The first two digits are clearly “46”. The last digit is not clear. It could be an “L” or perhaps a “1”. It does not seem to be a Bosch code. An L would indicate a Bosch code of 1930 for early coding. That is a possibility, though it would rule out original use on a VW.

The white paint appears in a straight line but don’t see enough to make out even make out a single alphanumeric character.

I can confirm that the coil and bracket are a matched pairing. There are ten brads run through the bracket and into the coil jacket and the entry points on the jacket match up to the bracket. Seems like ten is an overkill. They really wanted the two pieces to stay together.
_________________
Roads Scholar
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018

1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc

1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse

Member# 2059

[tasb]

[wagen19]

Coils and wiring:
Progressive R. says, 1956, Aug 31, Sept 1, the wire from ignition switch to coil, (15) was increased to 1,5 sq mm, formerly 0,75 sq mm. (about 2 weeks later, after the new TE 6 / B 1 coil came)
So it´s not the best idea to use a "big coil" or a "high performance" ignition system powered by a old and only 0,75 sq mm wire. (lower voltage at coil and wire can get very hot!)

Imo, the black coil obove is neither Bosch, nor VW or Porsche.
On "our" old Bosch coils till early 1952 the bracket was welded on.

In early Porsche literature, the 356 had a TK 6 / 3 (star-coil) and later a TK 6 A 3 (bolt- on- bracket)

Maybe Gmund 356 could have used VW coils, if not KdF ones.

The blue "TK 6 A 4" coil here can be a period high performance "spare coil", it´s neither listed in old VW nor in Porsche spare books.

[Frederik]

[tasb]

[wagen19]

[tasb]

Fair enough, what I do have is second hand from the seller that the coil was removed from a Split Beetle fan shroud. Equipment manufactured between the war was co-produced with allied manufacturers. I have a 1937 distributor that was manufactured by Bosch and the French firm Lavalier. The parameters for primary and secondary coil windings match those of other TL 6/1 coils. This is primary evidence.
_________________
Roads Scholar
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018

1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc

1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse

Member# 2059

[wagen19]

[Frederik]

Me too think more of eastern Europe.. or US ( but US didn't use the Bosch/ Europe terminal designations, did they?)

"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not Zebra". Nothing really says it has anything to do with Bosch or VW, other than the anecdotal story it came from a split beetle fan house. The zebra being its some exotic Bosch/vw part, the horse being some PO installed some random coil he found.

That said I find it interesting if you keep investigate, and maybe prove it is a Zebra.

My take on the markings. The bracket looks to have MTL on one side of the star logo and 6/1 on the other. Not really the "TL 6/1" part number used by Bosch. The stampings looks kind of crude, not evenly stamped and MTL and 6/1 not lining up. Is it the coil manufacturers stamping or added later (car maker, military etc)? The star logo makes me think "eastern Europe", also it kind of looks (with a lot of fantasy) like it could be a "R" (like DDR) last in the white paint. But this is only a "feeling" I got . My best bet to find the manufacturer is to identify the "MB" logo on the bakelite. The date code, if it is one, can't be assumed to follow the Bosch letter year codes and it don't look like one with the "46". It might be week 46 and whatever year the letter correspond to, or L= month 12, 46= 1946?

The first outside of Germany Bosch manufacturing I think was Compagnie des Magnétos Simms-Bosch renamed Société des Magnétos Bosch in France in the early 1900. The MB logo could be from this, but I really don't think so, can't find any evidence they used that logo and it ended with the outbreak of the WW 1 (coil looks later). The French Bosch manufacturing resumed in the 20's as a joint venture with Lavalette called Bosch-Lavalette (not Lavalier). Other early outside Germany Bosch manufacturing was American-bosch (USA) and later in the 1930's CAV-bosch (UK, CAV was part of Lucas). Other countries had some licensed manufacturing. If it's a licensed or expropriated (WW2) made coil, I would have expected it to look more like a Bosch coil from that era? The early outside Germany production was to produce the parts close to the foreign car manufacturers, not to import it back to be used in domestic cars. (Would probably have been expensive with the "politics" of the time..)

Also remember there were a lot of companies, some forgotten, in Europe (east and west) that made ignition parts and many more that sold them under their own brand. Many looks very similar to the Bosch one. Here is a "Hesselman" (both on bracket and sticker) a Swedish company, compared to a Nov 1940 Bosch coil

[Frederik]

I'm pretty sure I many years ago found a page identifying vintage German logos for auto parts manufacturers. But lost the link and can't find it. Similar to this page (but it's for household plugs and sockets). Some manufacturers also made electrical auto parts so it is still useful. They also have a lot of logos from other countries. https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/German-logos.html

You might be able to email the site and ask if they recognize the MB logo/ have seen it in their research?