Pertronix (all points replacements) vs Points

[Dan Ruddock]

[Wulfthang]

I used a Crane Cans HI-6 with the points as the trigger. It's CDI and fires thru a Mallory Super Coil so the spark is impressive. Plus, it's multi spark and has a built in rev limiter. It does all of the heavy work so the points no longer have electrode wear. (Cam wear only)

When I installed it on my car, I added a couple of small cooling fans to keep it cool. I also wired it in with a switch so I can switch it out of the circuit and make the engine run as points only. Switching it out at an idle results in the rpms dropping several hundred rpm.

[doublecanister]

hey guys,

Just wanted to ask about the pertronix ignitor II system as I'm curious.. and share what I've learned.

Having had this system installed for me on a 66' Mustang, years ago...and having it fail after about 3 years, I did finally discover why.
In the Mustangs case, the original installer used the "pink resistor wire" which did not give the Pertronix ignitor unit it's full 12 volts was more like 3.5 to 4v.

In this specific case, I went back to points for a while and ended up figuring out what happened and put a replacement Ignitor II module on the car along with the 12v relay kit.
their coil and wire set.
So the relay triggers with the pink resistor wire, then it pulls 12v straight from the battery for the module, which is what they report it needs to function correctly.

So far it's been at least 3-4+ years and this seems to have fixed the issue, the 289 runs great on that module (on points not so much).

The reason I bought this up is i've been mulling upgrading my 1600 engine in my 73 Thing for safer drivability, more power, what ever I can get.
After a recent road trip to Kubeltreffen East in Appomattox, Va, it defiantly needs a boost, I'm holding up traffic driving in certain conditions,
climbing hills it go up to 60+ downhill and drop to 40ish uphill. Running 55mph for long distances it seemed to act up i'm assuming from heat (plus it was hot as crap outside anyways).

Going electronic ignition has been on the list as a upgrade (I know there are multiple options out there, and it was suggested to go with the magnaspark if I upgrade the engine)
but I was just curious for all the failures reported on these pertronix modules that yall have also experienced,

>Was it the module or was it the way it was installed that caused the failure? meaning a lack of a full 12v to the module? or heat maybe?

After getting someone to do this install for me the first time and honestly the instructions were so straight forward they were confusing to me at the time,
Then, myself having to figure out what broke and fix it a 2nd time, and getting some help from a place I just asked for help out of desperation [Retro Rockets],
they helped me figure out the cause of the issue and gave me a bunch of troubleshooting notes on it and I didn't even buy from them. Great guys!

Well It made me wonder if that's the problem with these units, the instructions were at the time so easy they were difficult to comprehend.
They tell you that you can install it and be worry free (which it was until the engine was harder and harder to start).
The Mechanic I had install it for me the first time was a active drag racer and worked on police cars for a living he was a good tech, but this was his first pertronix install also.

I suppose in my case for the VW, if I did the pertronix upgrade I was going to use the 12v relay kit to keep my svda distributor and pict 34 carb for now, I've been mulling engine
upgrades and am a bit set back at some of the prices i'm seeing.
I got to drive a 2110cc THING at the show, love the power but am abit set back at some of the projected costs and modifications i'm learning it'd cost to do that.

But, I will add my 73 seems to run fine with points and i'm more knowledgeable now then I was back in 94' mucking with the Mustang, just wondered if it's truly worth upgrading
to electronic vs staying on points, cause if that's the case, if I were to upgrade the engine to a 1776 or 1910 or 2110 (or whatever) would you then keep points or go electronic?

Just to note, in the case of the Mustang there was a noticeable change in engine performance with electronic vs points, on the VW i'd assume the same?

I'm still in sticker shock reading up on engine upgrade and mod costs and it's making me want to do all I can to the 1600 to get what I can out of it.

so was just curious if for all the failures with the pertronix modules was it truly due to lack of 12v source voltage or something else if anyone knows?
Just curious.

Thanks yall,
T
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2020 - Mustang Eco Boost [High Performance]
1973 - Thing
1966 - Mustang GT- Fastback
1951 - Ford F1 pickup Flathead V8

[ashman40]

[chrisflstf]

Im in the process of adding a relay to get full voltage to the CDI box, so this is good info

Is that a 1N4004 Diode?

Thx!

[ashman40]

[doublecanister]

Hey Ashman, thanks for the reply about using the diode if I were to go pertronix II with a relay kit.

Would the 'need' for this diode be due to running a generator vs a alternator?

Just curious. I know on Fords the alt's have a diode in them, i'd assume vw alt's do as well. (going to an alternator was also on the upgrade list)

Good info as trying to come up with a upgrade plan it seems everything
has another device or system to get affected from one change or another.

I'm still on the fence on doing a complete engine swap to something larger or rebuilding mine, so more things to chew on.

Thanks again!

T
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2020 - Mustang Eco Boost [High Performance]
1973 - Thing
1966 - Mustang GT- Fastback
1951 - Ford F1 pickup Flathead V8

[Nitramrebrab72]

I prefer fitting a Mk1 Vw Golf Bosch electronic points distributor. 40 years without failing opposed to 2 to 3 years Petronix.

[Glenn]

[ashman40]

[Nitramrebrab72]

[Nitramrebrab72]

The 8 valve mk2 golf distributor has a duel vacuum canister for those who want more precise advance control at tick over.

[59 dormi]

Installed pertronix today I marked the distributor where I had the timing set with points prior to the pertronix install and I can’t get it to fire it just back fires
I have the blue coil with the red on positive and the black on negative I’m running a electric fuel pump off the coil as well
I’m running the stock vacuum advance 1300-1500 distributor the pertronix unit I bought is for this distributor
Where did I make a mistake or does this dizzy only work on points?

Prior to this on points it started first time every time it was just getting hard to find points cap and rotor so I thought I’d give this a shot
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1959 Dormobile

Mini R53 bob the tomato
Range Rover L322

[heimlich]

[ashman40]

[raygreenwood]

I don't know about your engine, but I have found thatPertronix rarely matches up to eactly teh same initial timig point as you had with points.

What do I mean by that?

So if on your old points distributor.....lets say you set the points rubbing block on exactly TDC of the cam....and the centerline of the rotor pointsdirectly to the mark for #1 on the dristributor body. Yes....I know its not set up just like that. This is for understanding of the concept.

So lets say you set it up like that. You pull dirstributor out, remove the points and install the igniter 1 module and magnet ring and rotor.

You put the distributor back in with the centerline dead on the punch mark for #1 on the distributor body like it was.

Your timing will be off.

The peak of the magnetic force that causes the switching is NOT in the same place as where the points were.

I have found them to be an average of 5-7 degrees and as much as 10 degrees off from where the point rubbing block to cam centerline was.

I usually err towards advance. Advance about 5* and try to start it. Connect your timing light up before you start so that once you get it running you can time it. Ray

[Glenn]

I recently rebuilt a stock 1600DP that the customer supplied 95% of the parts. We installed the engine a few days ago and just couldn't get it to run right. Cheap aftermarket 34PICT-3 carb and Pertronix distributor.

After taking the carb apart, fixing the casting flash and setting the float height the engine ran better but still had a miss. Finally replace the Pertronix III distributor with a good used stock 034 and points...it now runs great.

Another Pertronix for the scrap pile.

_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי

[mikedjames]

The Ignitor 1 is simple. It either works for years or dies the instant you swap the wires.
I have seen one where the magnet ring was faulty and the engine backfired badly then ran OK then backfired again . New magnet ring and it was perfect.


The Ignitor 2 is more complex. It also dies when you swap the wires. Most Chinese ignitors are similar. Once you get them hot, they can start randomly behaving exactly like a condenser failure or points closing up. Always carry a spare distributor pre- timed if you use an electronic module.


The ignitor III is likely to perform worse than points at low RPM because it only has two timing points per rotation of the engine. At high RPM it all averages out ..


At least all three allow you to use vacuum advance distributor bodies if you have a bus and not a Beetle or an industrial engine with an 009..
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Ancient vehicles and vessels

1974 VW T2 : Devon Eurovette camper with 1641 DP T1 engine, Progressive carb, full flow oil cooler, EDIS crank timed ignition.
Engine 1: 40k miles (rocker shaft clip fell off), Engine 2: 30k miles (rebuild, dropped valve). Engine 3: a JK Preservation Parts "new" engine, aluminium case: 26k miles: new top end.
Gearbox rebuild 2021 by Bears.

1979 Westerly GK24 24 foot racer/cruiser yacht Forethought of Gosport.
1973 wooden Pacer sailing dinghy

[tzepesh]

Can you please help me identify the model of this Pertronix, is it I or II? I need to know what coil primary resistance we shall use, I have both >3 Ohm coils and <1Ohm coils, and would really like not to fry the module.
The only sticker on it says D57 2
I asked Pertronix but did not receive any answer.

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'74 1303S, L98B Viperngrun (extra glitter), German Look
'64 1200, Sea Blue, under restoration

[Glenn]

It's a Pertronix I, the Pertronix II is red.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי