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1600man
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Joined: January 01, 2025
Posts: 16
Location: Wichita KS USA
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 Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2025 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: Overheating Help |
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Does the timing mark look too advanced to anyone else?
Maybe a little rich also but that helps keep it cool.
I still think it's a lack of airflow issue. You need the doghouse shroud with the bigger fan. The stand off decklid will allow more air to the fan. It's a big motor with high compression.
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1970 VW beetle
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1972 Cutlass
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vamram 
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Joined: March 08, 2012
Posts: 8227
Location: NOVA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2025 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: Overheating Help |
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I'd have to agree. I don't think there's much sense in spending much more time on this until he gets the proper shroud for the motor. I mean, is the doghouse cooler just sitting outside in the open air in front of the shroud?? Or does he have a single-port case w/the old style cooler inside the shroud?
_________________
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to put moral chains upon their own appetites. -Edmund Burke
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
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Eric&Barb
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Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 26267
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2025 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Overheating Help |
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| vamram wrote: |
| I'd have to agree. I don't think there's much sense in spending much more time on this until he gets the proper shroud for the motor. I mean, is the doghouse cooler just sitting outside in the open air in front of the shroud?? Or does he have a single-port case w/the old style cooler inside the shroud? |
He has old style single port "H" case engine with non-DH cooling system.
| Snoopy1971 wrote: |
Yes I have a non-doghouse. Would going up in displacement only 94 CCs have this effect? I know Ive seen plenty of 1600s and a little over in displacement that still have non-doghouse systems, and they didnt have my issues ... hmmm totally interesting theory!! |
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chrisflstf
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Joined: February 10, 2004
Posts: 4220
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2025 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: Overheating Help |
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| Snoopy1971 wrote: |
| chrisflstf wrote: |
| I would put an oil pressure gauge on it. If its too high, it will bypass the cooler. Bad/wrong springs can cause this |
What range is it supposed to be in? |
10 PSI for every 1000 rpm seems to be the norm |
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bsairhead
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Joined: October 08, 2008
Posts: 4555
Location: viroqua wi.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2025 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: Overheating Help |
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| Snoopy1971 wrote: |
| vamram wrote: |
| When i use this method, i rev it to 3.2k+ and set it between 28-32. 26 is too low. |
Yes thats the way I understiod it ... I just didnt follow what Mr. Bsairhead was trying to convey.
I pulled my throttle all tge way back ... about 3200 was the max I could get out of it. |
Mr. Bsairhead here. But you can call me bsairhead, The rpm is not the factor the all in advance is. Plugs look a little lean but not bad. Got a spot you can hot rod it, shut down and coast to a safe spot to pull your plugs for a reading? Make sure your at 28-30 even 32 if it runs better. 26* is to low. |
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VW_Jimbo
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Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 11448
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2025 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: Overheating Help |
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Sounds too lean.
Back a few, you reset the basics and fattened up the idle mixture and brought the temps down. Why would you not try another 1/4 turn or 2 or 3 or 4? I am betting you set the basic idle mixture too lean. I bet you have never checked the float level and the main jet is too lean?
You need to find a way to measure the mixture and then make adjustments based on actual measurements.
Your plugs are too lean. I would step up one size on the main jet and idle jet. Then reset all of the basics. Then go for a drive. Once you return, let it cool down and pull the plugs. Read them. Then make adjustments, if needed.
Remember, it is better to be too rich, then too lean. Lean burns valves and pistons, you run a chance for preignition and overheating the poor engine. Too rich and you get worn rings, worn cylinder walls and worn main bearings (if the oil gets saturated).
So, you gotta get this quickly. Get a set of jets and start learning to read plugs or take it to a tuner!
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Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
| TDCTDI wrote: |
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Snoopy1971
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2020
Posts: 347
Location: Parkville, Maryland
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2025 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: Overheating Help |
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| 1600man wrote: |
Does the timing mark look too advanced to anyone else?
Maybe a little rich also but that helps keep it cool.
I still think it's a lack of airflow issue. You need the doghouse shroud with the bigger fan. The stand off decklid will allow more air to the fan. It's a big motor with high compression. |
What timing mark? I didn't post a pic with a timing mark
Yeah Im still waiting for the standoff shipping confirmation ... been 11 days and no word yet.
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Snoopy1971
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2020
Posts: 347
Location: Parkville, Maryland
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2025 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: Overheating Help |
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| vamram wrote: |
| I'd have to agree. I don't think there's much sense in spending much more time on this until he gets the proper shroud for the motor. I mean, is the doghouse cooler just sitting outside in the open air in front of the shroud?? Or does he have a single-port case w/the old style cooler inside the shroud? |
Mr. V ... yep I have a single port case with older cooler inside the shroud
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Snoopy1971
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Joined: May 15, 2020
Posts: 347
Location: Parkville, Maryland
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2025 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Overheating Help |
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| VW_Jimbo wrote: |
Sounds too lean.
Back a few, you reset the basics and fattened up the idle mixture and brought the temps down. Why would you not try another 1/4 turn or 2 or 3 or 4? I am betting you set the basic idle mixture too lean. I bet you have never checked the float level and the main jet is too lean?
You need to find a way to measure the mixture and then make adjustments based on actual measurements.
Your plugs are too lean. I would step up one size on the main jet and idle jet. Then reset all of the basics. Then go for a drive. Once you return, let it cool down and pull the plugs. Read them. Then make adjustments, if needed.
Yeah I am a super newbie at carb adjustments. Another 1/4 turn on which one, the volume control screw or the bypass screw? If I turn it more, it messes with the idle speed.
My main jet is a 135 ... not sure why somebody put such a big one in there
Remember, it is better to be too rich, then too lean. Lean burns valves and pistons, you run a chance for preignition and overheating the poor engine. Too rich and you get worn rings, worn cylinder walls and worn main bearings (if the oil gets saturated).
So, you gotta get this quickly. Get a set of jets and start learning to read plugs or take it to a tuner! |
The plugs look lean?? I though lean is covered in white/light gray ash? ... These plugs look neutral colored/ tannish to me.
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Snoopy1971
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Joined: May 15, 2020
Posts: 347
Location: Parkville, Maryland
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2025 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: Overheating Help |
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| Max Welton wrote: |
| Snoopy1971 wrote: |
| Yes I have a non-doghouse. Would going up in displacement only 94 CCs have this effect? I know Ive seen plenty of 1600s and a little over in displacement that still have non-doghouse systems, and they didnt have my issues ... hmmm totally interesting theory!! |
Well, VW went to the DH configuration for a reason and just because others appear to be getting away with non-DH ... doesn't count for much. |
Well true ... I ran a 1600 DP with non-doghouse for the 5 years Ive owned it, and many friends have done the same ... I guess my time was up!! 
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Snoopy1971
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Joined: May 15, 2020
Posts: 347
Location: Parkville, Maryland
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2025 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: Overheating Help |
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| bsairhead wrote: |
| Snoopy1971 wrote: |
| vamram wrote: |
| When i use this method, i rev it to 3.2k+ and set it between 28-32. 26 is too low. |
Yes thats the way I understiod it ... I just didnt follow what Mr. Bsairhead was trying to convey.
I pulled my throttle all tge way back ... about 3200 was the max I could get out of it. |
Mr. Bsairhead here. But you can call me bsairhead, The rpm is not the factor the all in advance is. Plugs look a little lean but not bad. Got a spot you can hot rod it, shut down and coast to a safe spot to pull your plugs for a reading? Make sure your at 28-30 even 32 if it runs better. 26* is to low. |
The plugs look lean?? I though lean is covered in white/light gray ash? ... These plugs look neutral colored/ tannish to me
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Snoopy1971
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2020
Posts: 347
Location: Parkville, Maryland
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2025 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: Overheating Help |
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So a list of everything I need to convert to a doghouse ... let me make sure I have everything ... I would need:
- Doghouse fan shroud
- The 2 tins that go on the back of the shroud
- The front engine tin
- Fan
- The captive nut on the drivers side
- Doghouse oil cooler and the adapter and correct seals
Is this everything?
Also, would it behoove me to decrease my compression ratio? How so? My deck heights are all between .049 and .053 already ... I thought I read somewhere that between .040 and .050 was the optimal deck height ... so two of my cylinders are in there already. If I want to get my CR down from 8.5 to 7.5, I would need .060" in shims that would make the CR 7.5.
Would another option be to have a machine shop machine out my heads to make the combustion chambers bigger? I would need the CCs increased from 48 to 57 to make the CR 7.5.
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1600man
Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2025
Posts: 16
Location: Wichita KS USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2025 8:06 pm Post subject: Re: Overheating Help |
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| Snoopy1971 wrote: |
| 1600man wrote: |
Does the timing mark look too advanced to anyone else?
Maybe a little rich also but that helps keep it cool.
I still think it's a lack of airflow issue. You need the doghouse shroud with the bigger fan. The stand off decklid will allow more air to the fan. It's a big motor with high compression. |
What timing mark? I didn't post a pic with a timing mark
Yeah Im still waiting for the standoff shipping confirmation ... been 11 days and no word yet. |
The timing mark on the grounding strap of the plugs. The closer it is to the threads the more timing it shows. You want it at the 90 bend.
The plugs look black to me but if they are tan you are good.
I'd leave the compression and get the doghouse fan and shroud setup. You could always add a oil filter for more oil capacity after getting the bugs worked out.
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1970 VW beetle
(1973 1600DP)
1972 Cutlass
(1970) 455 |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 26267
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2025 8:43 pm Post subject: Re: Overheating Help |
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| Snoopy1971 wrote: |
So a list of everything I need to convert to a doghouse ... let me make sure I have everything ... I would need:
- Doghouse fan shroud
- The 2 tins that go on the back of the shroud
- The front engine tin
- Fan
- The captive nut on the drivers side
- Doghouse oil cooler and the adapter and correct seals
Is this everything? |
The exhaust shell and tube for the hot air coming off the oil cooler, those go on the front of the fan shroud.
The thermostatic flaps for DH.
Foam tape from your local hardware store to seal the DH cooler exhaust tubes. Plus to seal the DH oil cooler tot he inside of the DH shroud.
The two rubber seals for the cooler exhaust tins.
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VW_Jimbo
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Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 11448
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2025 11:13 pm Post subject: Re: Overheating Help |
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| Snoopy1971 wrote: |
| bsairhead wrote: |
| Snoopy1971 wrote: |
| vamram wrote: |
| When i use this method, i rev it to 3.2k+ and set it between 28-32. 26 is too low. |
Yes thats the way I understiod it ... I just didnt follow what Mr. Bsairhead was trying to convey.
I pulled my throttle all tge way back ... about 3200 was the max I could get out of it. |
Mr. Bsairhead here. But you can call me bsairhead, The rpm is not the factor the all in advance is. Plugs look a little lean but not bad. Got a spot you can hot rod it, shut down and coast to a safe spot to pull your plugs for a reading? Make sure your at 28-30 even 32 if it runs better. 26* is to low. |
The plugs look lean?? I though lean is covered in white/light gray ash? ... These plugs look neutral colored/ tannish to me |
Those plugs are lean. Fix that first.
Good luck.
_________________
Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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vamram
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Joined: March 08, 2012
Posts: 8227
Location: NOVA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2025 4:38 am Post subject: Re: Overheating Help |
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Here are the DH cooling tins Eric&Barb mentioned above:
_________________
"Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition
to put moral chains upon their own appetites. -Edmund Burke
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...we hardly knew ye. Sold 2025 for peanuts.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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Snoopy1971
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2020
Posts: 347
Location: Parkville, Maryland
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2025 5:11 am Post subject: Re: Overheating Help |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| Snoopy1971 wrote: |
So a list of everything I need to convert to a doghouse ... let me make sure I have everything ... I would need:
- Doghouse fan shroud
- The 2 tins that go on the back of the shroud
- The front engine tin
- Fan
- The captive nut on the drivers side
- Doghouse oil cooler and the adapter and correct seals
Is this everything? |
The exhaust shell and tube for the hot air coming off the oil cooler, those go on the front of the fan shroud.
The thermostatic flaps for DH.
Foam tape from your local hardware store to seal the DH cooler exhaust tubes. Plus to seal the DH oil cooler tot he inside of the DH shroud.
The two rubber seals for the cooler exhaust tins. |
| vamram wrote: |
Here are the DH cooling tins Eric&Barb mentioned above:
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Oh yes yes, these are what I meant by the 2 tins ... I mistakenly said back of the fan shroud, I meant front.
Are the flaps and thermostat needed? Mine never had them in since Ive had the car. I know some guys run them and some dont.
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Snoopy1971
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Joined: May 15, 2020
Posts: 347
Location: Parkville, Maryland
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2025 5:14 am Post subject: Re: Overheating Help |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
Foam tape from your local hardware store to seal the DH cooler exhaust tubes. Plus to seal the DH oil cooler tot he inside of the DH shroud. |
Is this some sort of special foam tape to resist higher temps or just regular sticky foam weather stripping used for like windows you can get at Home Depot?
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vamram
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Joined: March 08, 2012
Posts: 8227
Location: NOVA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2025 5:27 am Post subject: Re: Overheating Help |
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| Snoopy1971 wrote: |
Is this some sort of special foam tape to resist higher temps or just regular sticky foam weather stripping used for like windows you can get at Home Depot? |
Yes, weather stripping foam from HD would work fine. I used some leftover foam from a window AC unit I installed this summer. The electrical tape was on there temporarily to keep the foam from peeling off until I was ready to install the fan shroud.
Also, I probably used foam that was a 1/2" too thick, but it held and crushed nicely when I installed the shroud over it.
And yes, IMO, you need the flaps and thermostat. I have them in all my cars, they make a big difference in warm up and especially in cold weather. Mine is a year-round driver so flaps & thermostat are a must-have.
_________________
"Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition
to put moral chains upon their own appetites. -Edmund Burke
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...we hardly knew ye. Sold 2025 for peanuts.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!!
Last edited by vamram on Wed Aug 06, 2025 7:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Snoopy1971
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2020
Posts: 347
Location: Parkville, Maryland
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2025 7:16 am Post subject: Re: Overheating Help |
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| VW_Jimbo wrote: |
| Snoopy1971 wrote: |
The plugs look lean?? I though lean is covered in white/light gray ash? ... These plugs look neutral colored/ tannish to me |
Those plugs are lean. Fix that first.
Good luck. |
Sounds good. I'll clean the plugs up and back the mixture screw out a little and see what it does. Or would you suggest a bigger main jet? I already have a 135 in there, not sure what size my idle jet is, I have to look.
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