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The Sound of One Hand Dampening
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mightyart
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:56 am    Post subject: The Sound of One Hand Dampening Reply with quote

One of the projects I wanted to start once I got my Westy running well was start making it more solid feeling. I noticed that there was allot of noise in the front and it had those wonderful hollow sounding 80’s doors. Another big reason was the sound quality of the stereo. When I was younger I would have just added a couple of big amplifiers, but seeing how much juice the alternator puts out, I opted to make the existing stereo as efficient as possible. More on the stereo in another post. I starting researching what to use, I found the B-quiet website because they had pictures of an install in a Vanagon:
http://www.b-quiet.com/installs.html
After reading some of the websites that suggest other methods, I decided to spend the cash and go with an aftermarket product that is made for this application. So was it Dynamat or B-quiet? Well I’m still a cheap guy so I looked on Ebay for the best deal on a quantity of sound deadening material, I wanted enough to do both front doors and the front floor area. I went with the B-Quiet Extreme, a 50 ft roll and included roller for around $125.00 with shipping. I received it from the company quickly, and packed well. I opened the package and found the “stuff” and the roller, I looked all over the box and couldn’t find any instructions or even any mention of any. I went to the B-quiet website, no instructions anywhere, I had heard you needed a heat gun, well it must be so easy you don’t need instructions, (I assumed hopefully).
I got up early Saturday morning and went to work. Thankfully my hopeful assumption had been correct, it was super easy to install, no heat gun needed just peel and stick.
For cutting I used a basic box cutter/utility knife, have a box of new blades ready as the tar stuff will dull them after some use. The Mylar backing is good and tough, this stuff really sticks! But I think it could be removed very easily with a heat gun, which is one reason I went with the expensive stuff.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

the door before, I removed all the old moisture barrier and got to scrubbing, I used carburetor cleaner to get some of the 24 year old grime inside the door, as with everything else the cleaner the surface is the better stuff will stick,
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

after I used the door panel as a template and just made a small slice in the Mylar where small bolts and plastic holder went. I started by fitting the biggest pieces I could inside the door as I could, the stuff is very thin and didn’t mess with the window at all. The stuff sticks so good I am very confident it will stay for a very long time.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

when I took the swivel apart I had to regrease it, the stuff that was in it had ceased to be grease long ago. I dampened as much of the wheel well as I could, this has got to be a high vibration area.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

one I got going it was very easy I used the carpet and the door panels as templates, I took my time and spread the job over two days, it could be done in a day I think.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

50 ft was just short of covering all I wanted, but it made a huge difference!
I’m going to get more and work my way back, I also want to put another layer up front and under the dash, The wife and I took our first long trip in it this weekend and what a difference! At 70mph you can hear the stereo, and you can hear the back passengers better, just more quiet all around I give it and A+
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DanJReed
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MA, why not add some to the inside of the door skins? Or did you? That's what I was planning to do..

Looks like a nice job. Better than my 6" strips...
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mightyart
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I put some inside the skin as much as I could reach in and flatten good with my hand, I wanted to keep the door cavity open, I also stuck a Dyna-mat, DynaXorb pad behind each speaker opening, It's a thick heavy piece of silcone or rubber I guess, what ever it is it, these little woofers "thup" now, very clean, no vibration. The old blaupunkt speakers that where there, sounded awful, this is a vast improvement and I didn't pay all that much for the speakers.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Duncwarw
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Art,

I just took another look at your post and realized I might have had it wrong. Upon te first quick look, for some reason, I thought you had used the stuff inside the door. My mistake.

It sounds like that stuff maight be worth saving the pennies for.

Nice work! I'm trying to get better about taking pictures and "documenting" the various projects. It's such a big help to see what somebody else did before you start.

Wait 'til you see the crap I just got out of my gas tank! Shocked
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mightyart
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duncwarw wrote:
.
It sounds like that stuff maight be worth saving the pennies for.

Nice work! I'm trying to get better about taking pictures and "documenting" the various projects. It's such a big help to see what somebody else did before you start.

Wait 'til you see the crap I just got out of my gas tank! Shocked


It was worth it in my opinion, since this is our only vehical and we own it free and clear, me and the wife decided to spend the extra money and do it as right as we can fiqure out, we just try to save the same amount that we used to spend on the car payment, and spend it on the Westy. Believe it or not I would say it's just as dependable as our honda was, now I'm trying to make it more comfortable Wink

I got used to shooting a bunch of pictures when I got a digital camera and a large hard drive, I could just shoot away and delete whatever didn't work. I've always liked to take pictures, but I didn't want to waste my film, Took me a while to unlearn this. I like to look at my progress, and the pictures help with fixing things but the reason I started was If I have to sell it someday I will have a good record of the work that went into it.
I just got a new camera so I've been snapping a bunch of stuff lately.
Not the real good stuff like you do Duncwarw (I enjoy looking at your photo's on your website), I just think it's fun.
Please take many photo's of your projects, I have learned many things on The Samba, and I want to learn some more. Laughing
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levi
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

great info! thanks for posting this. I've been wanting to do some sound insulating ............
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Duncwarw
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Art, you're too kind.

Digital has that great advantage over film. You can just shoot and delete until you like what you shot. I shoot film in medium format almost esclusively and even in 8 X 10 sometimes, but now and then I've taken to borrowing my son's little point and shoot digital. It's just so easy.
Don't tell anybody I said that. Very Happy WhenI tech my class, I try to get all the digital folks to drag out the old 35mm and learn that way. They're always surprised at what they can do with it.

I keep forgetting that somebody might actually look at my site. Thanks for the reminder. I'll get back to work on it as soon as I get done with the VWs gas tank. Wait 'til you see what I found in there!
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panasonic90
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool Mighty, I'm going to be busy on my bay cabin soon. Could you describe a bit how is that material? here in Europe we do not have those brands, but if I know what is it made of I could probably find something similar.
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mightyart
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure you can get something very simular in the Europe. When I started looking I knew of only one product and that was Dynamat, they've been around for awhile. I know you can get Dynamat in the UK, heres a link that describes it: http://www.dynamat.com/spec_dynamat_xtreme.htm
The stuff I used had the same properties as the Dynamat it just didn't cost as much.
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Adventurewagen
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I decided to do this to my notch and found the same thing from B-quiet. One thing I should mention, if you put a small square inside the door, it drastically reduces vibration and noise. Obviously the more you put on, the better it insulates. I found a bunch of sites talking about this stuff, its really popular in the car stereo world. Anyway, if you look around you find that using small pieces in the wheel wells, door panels and on the engine compartment will reduce the dB's alot (something lik 8dB or so) but adding it to every square inch may only give you another couple dB's. I was going to coat my entire notch, but ended up putting a few patches in here and there, tremendous difference.

Looks great.
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DanJReed
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a follow up to this post, I did just as MA did, and the results ARE AMAZING! EVERYONE WITH A VANAGON MUST DO THIS!!!

I even made up a page, with a video showing what the doors sound like (before and after).

http://faculty.ccp.edu/faculty/dreed/Campingart/vanagon/Doorbaf.htm

Cheers!
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mightyart
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's pretty good, It did make a big differance. now you need to do the floor and the boxes(wheel wells) the seats are on, makes a big differance in road noise.
I want to do more in the "nose" of the van, still to noisy for me, but I don't have a heavy radiator up front absorbing vibrations like most of you do. Wink
I also agree with Adventurewagen that you could do squares in various places and still get a good dampening effect. Whatever material you use, This does make your box more comfortable to drive.
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Ericthenorse
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy If you can't afford to buy 1,000 feet of deadening material, get enough to just cover at least %75 of all flat pannels. most of the noise you hear inside the vehicle is road noise that is transfered through flat pannels like a speaker. on my old bugs, I just put about a 2'x2' piece on the back side of the door and quarter panel skins, and a 3'strip down the middle of the roof and didn't put any behind the door pannels. Tar paper underlayment came with the carpet kit. You need to stop the noise at the source, the outer skin of the doors. if you just put it behind the door pannel, you still get alot of low level kind of drooning noise since the hollow door acts like a bass drum. you would be surprised what just a 1'x1' piece in the middle of your door pannels would do. you should still do the inner skin of the door if you want to, but you should at least try to get as much on the inside of the skin as you can. It's kind of like when you hit a bongo drum with one hand resting on it, kind of mutes it... Twisted Evil
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r39o
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have tried to buy "Leak Stopper" etc from several places here in So Cali. Lowe's, Home Dept, Roofing Supplies, etc. All to no avail. Any web links out there for this stuff other than just buying the B-quiet?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have just bought 2 rolls of Lowes "leak stopper "
I could not find it at first and several queries produced nothing but blank looks from staff . I finally found it in plumbing not in their insulation section . It is called Duct Insulation and is made by Frost King at Thermwell Products Co , Mahwah NJ .Their website is WWW.frostking.com . Their part # is FV516 and Lowes item # is 28929 for what that is worth . It measures 1/8 inch by 15 feet long by 12 inches and cost me $14 . It is self adhesive and looks fairly reasonable but until I use it I wont know . Has anyone out there used it ? I intend to put it in the Van in as many places as I can get to but as the van is not running I cant tell if it makes any difference .
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, I will go there tomorrow.

Also, there is another material I use in cars for a similiar purpose to Dynamat. It is http://www.julianos.com/sound_deadening.html and it is nice stuff and not too expensive. I will be putting that into the insides of my front doors. My two other doors have some from the factory already but they are later doors. I will add some to them too. Works good.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its not leak stopper - its called Peel and Seal, and its in the roofing section, but I think the Frostking stuff is almost the same (and the same price).

http://www.mfmbp.com/Spec.htm

At least that's the stuff I used.

3 rolls did all of my doors and some of the interior panels.

Also I learned that 88 and later vans came with more insulation, and really don't benifet from adding this to the front doors..
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peel And Seal = Lowe's item 154017 = 0.045 in thick x 6 inches x 25 feet = $12.47
Thermwell Foam and Foil Duct Insulation = Lowe's Item 28929 = 0.125 in thick x 12 inches x 15 feet = $14.74
Leak Stopper (Roof Mending Tape) = ???? can't find!

Not all Lowe's carry the same items! UGH!
I also could not find all items at Home Depot, either.
Dang!

So basically, one is three times thicker than the other.
Use one on the doors and the other inside stuff.

Thanks again...
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I put in prolly 100 feet of that stuff, and now i wish i had'nt...now i hear all the other rattles and squeaks in the ol girl. *sigh* But for realz, its worked great, i can talk to passengers and hear the radio Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which stuff did you use ?
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