| Author |
Message |
tuner-automotive
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2004
Posts: 445
Location: Bend oregon
|
 Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:38 pm Post subject: Auto stick to manual 4 spd conversion |
 |
|
Im looking at buying a 68 bug minus the motor for $300.
The only problem is its a auto stick.
Can I just drop a IRS tranny in its place and be good or is there more to it?
Do I have to alter the shift linkages and what not aswell? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 80679
Location: Sneaking up behind you
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You need to first check if it has the clutch cable tube.
Then you need the tranny, shifter, linkage, pedal cluster. I think the axles are the same.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cbr900racer
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2005
Posts: 1360
Location: middle tennessee
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 6:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
oil pump too??
_________________
71 Bay (1776 in process)
94 Sonoma
98 Suburban (bike hauler)
97 Blazer
07 Nitro
94 CBR900RR (runs 5.70s 1/8 mile) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 80679
Location: Sneaking up behind you
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 6:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| cbr900racer wrote: |
| oil pump too?? |
| tuner-automotive wrote: |
| Im looking at buying a 68 bug minus the motor for $300. |
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bookwus
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2003
Posts: 1786
Location: City of Roses
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hiya Tuner,
If I were you I'd walk away from this one.
As Glenn mentioned, you need to look for a clutch cable tube in the center tunnel. My bet is that you will not find one. When VW started AutoStick production in 68 they had pans made specifically for an AutoStick application. That meant no manual clutch tube. After a bit they realized that building a special pan was too costly and they junked that approach in favor of just using a regular pan (with clutch cable tube). The result is that the later the year or production FROM 1968 the more likely you are to find a clutch cable tube.
And cbr raises a good point also. If you decided to keep the car as an AutoStick then you are going to have to find some parts which can be difficult (if not outright impossible) to locate. The oil pump is easy enough to find (a little spendy though) but if you have to redo the clutch components inside the bellhousing, don't walk away - run! If you can find a throwout bearing at all, expect to pay WELL over $100 for it.
The long and the short of this one is that it may well be too expensive to covert to a manual and it may well be too expensive to keep it as an AutoStick.
Mike
1970 AS Bug |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
David Grason
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2005
Posts: 104
Location: Princeton, Kentucky
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 9:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Bookwus wrote: |
| If I were you I'd walk away from this one. |
At first glance, maybe. But then again, maybe not. It's a shame to pass on so many VWs that are in other respects perfectly good project cars. I think your mindset will have a huge amount to do with it. If you think you can do, you probably can. I've done 2 of these conversions in the past. One a bug and the other a Ghia. Both were successful and I wouldn't be afraid to do another.....now that I know what I'm up against. But it's like a lot of other things such as installing tile in your bathroom or something. The first time through is such a learning experience that you may doubt your own sanity when you're finished. But if you do it a 2nd time, you're thinking: "Wow, that wasn't difficult at all." In the end, only you can make the call.
But here's my take on the conversion:
Step #1. On the passenger's side of the tunnel, you'll need to cut 2 largish rectangular holes. You're only cutting 3 sides of your rectangle so that you can bend the "tab" of metal away and gain access to the inside of the tunnel. Use an angle grinder and a sawzall, NOT A TORTCH! Then you can bend the metal back and you'll need to weld it back in when you're finished. The first hole gets cut right ahead of the pedal assembly. The other hole, right behind the hand brake. You'll need these holes large enough to stick your MIG tip in there and weld the clutch cable tube down so that it doesn't wiggle around.
#2. Also, cut a 1¼ in. hole with a hole saw, just to the left of the shift rod hole above the front trans mount.
#3. You'll need a piece of 3/8 I.D. pipe, NOT TUBING, that's approximately 70 inches long. It will need to have a slight bend in the middle and both ends will need to be machined down to 15/32 OD and ½ deep in order to fit into the bowden tube. The stock tube on standard tranny cars has a support welded in the middle of the pipe. You can use any old finger of metal strong enough to take the weld for yours. But you don't want the clutch tube moving around.
#4. Once you've got your new clutch tube in place, trial fit your bowden tube. When everything fits, weld your tube so that it's supported at the back end of the tunnel.
#5. You'll need to change either the shift rod from a 4-speed model of the same year, or redrill the auto "hockey stick" for the transmission.
#6. Once you've got everything in place, add a cable, wing nut, pedal assembly, bushing, coupler and you're finished, DUDE!
Now actually, there are a couple of other things worth mentioning. You can use the auto stick shifter but you'd be much better off buying an EMPI, SCAT or Berg shifter or something. You'll need the 4 speed shifter plate from a donor car.
If you're using the autostick engine, change the flywheel to one that uses a clutch. Don't forget to set your endplay.
Replace the autostick engine's oil pump with a standard oil pump.
Finally, every autostick car I've ever seen uses the IRS suspension. Any standard IRS will drop right in. CV joints and axles are the same. However, if you want to put a swing axle in your car, maybe for drag racing or something, you'll have to change out the spring plates and torsion bars. But I'd stick with the IRS.
This entire job is somewhat involved, but it is NOT out of the question. As I stated earlier, I've done 2 of them myself and I'm not a bit afraid of doing it again.
_________________
¡Siempre Viven Los Vochitos!
That means: "Little Volkswagens Live Forever!"
Do each day a little more than expected and soon you'll be expected to do more. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
johneliot
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 2195
Location: Chico, CA
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The other option is to use a hydrolic clutch.
John
_________________
John
There is no distinctly American criminal class - except Congress.
Mark Twain
69 bug - "The Grey Ghost" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TaoDude
Samba Member
Joined: August 09, 2004
Posts: 371
Location: Lawrence, KS
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think auto-stick conversions should only be done if the transmission isnt functioning. I think they are kind of nifty but it is true that finding parts is a pain. for the most part you are buying used parts that you hope work better than the ones you have so it is always time consuming and "ify" so i can see where changing to a manual makes time/money sense if you would have to be buying auto-stick parts. I am leaving mine in on the resto but as far as I know there is nothing wrong with it and the car only has 72,000 miles on it and I hear autosticks will run forever if cared for.
_________________
'70 Westy - "Artemisia"
www.geocities.com/dreammotorcar2
Working on fixing up the interior
'72 Convertible - Restoring
www.geocities.com/dreammotorcar
Currently in pieces in my garage |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Karzapart55
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2004
Posts: 642
Location: Old Bridge NJ
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| IM in the process of rplacing auto stick with 4 speed. When i romoved the body(with the help of bug me vidio) i found the clutch tube all ready there, just pluggrd withjoint seal. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TaoDude
Samba Member
Joined: August 09, 2004
Posts: 371
Location: Lawrence, KS
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
want to send those autostick parts this way? I can always use spares
_________________
'70 Westy - "Artemisia"
www.geocities.com/dreammotorcar2
Working on fixing up the interior
'72 Convertible - Restoring
www.geocities.com/dreammotorcar
Currently in pieces in my garage |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MatB
Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2005
Posts: 103
Location: Massachusetts
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 6:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
I can't comment on the difficulty of the project since mine was converted by the PO. But I can say the conversion functions very well and I would not have bought the car as an AS.
He (PO) did an engine rebuild and a body off paint job so I think it was easy for him to do the conversion.
_________________
1970 KG Coupe
1835cc engine
Dual Kads |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VWGirl
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2003
Posts: 2462
Location: Powder Springs, GA
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
autosticks are awesome if they are working properly... i happen to have a rebuilt autostick engine ready to install for sale right now... i probably also have all the parts you would need since i no longer am driving an autostick
_________________
Without love in the dream it will never come true |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VWGirl
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2003
Posts: 2462
Location: Powder Springs, GA
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
i've also converted an autostick to 4spd... not at all difficult job... IF you have a clutch tube... which you dont 
_________________
Without love in the dream it will never come true |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dirtydeedss
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2005
Posts: 613
Location: Aldergrove BC Canada
|
| Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 8:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| will a standard pedal cluster bolt right up to a auto pedal mount? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 80679
Location: Sneaking up behind you
|
| Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 8:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| dirtydeedss wrote: |
| will a standard pedal cluster bolt right up to a auto pedal mount? |
Yes
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
keifernet
Samba Search & Rescue
Joined: May 11, 2002
Posts: 19395
Location: Samba Center for Behavioral Science
|
| Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 8:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
| This question has come up alot lately... this particular thread has a great post by "David Grason" on how to do the conversion. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vdubber
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2005
Posts: 27
|
| Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 9:30 pm Post subject: Autostick conversion |
|
|
I feel that if you have an Autostick car it should be left that way, unless the tranny is really trashed. But I've converted Autosticks to manual and have also converted a manual to Autostick for a young lady, as well as having installed new clutches in Autosticks. Most of the issues have already been addresed by others.
The foot pedal clusters are interchangeable and bolt right up with the original bolts. The Autostick shift rod is different from the manual rod. The Autostick uses a dual oil pump, one side for engine oil and one side for ATF.
If there is no clutch cable tube tube I recommend buying a hydraulic clutch set up for VW that's available online for around $300 (you can check under the rear of the pan, if there is a tube you'll see the plugged end sticking out).
If you are not experienced with this I think you should look for another car. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dirtydeedss
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2005
Posts: 613
Location: Aldergrove BC Canada
|
| Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 4:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| is this job possible with the body on the pan or does it have to come off? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
keifernet
Samba Search & Rescue
Joined: May 11, 2002
Posts: 19395
Location: Samba Center for Behavioral Science
|
| Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 10:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| dirtydeedss wrote: |
| is this job possible with the body on the pan or does it have to come off? |
No need to take the body off to do it... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dirtydeedss
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2005
Posts: 613
Location: Aldergrove BC Canada
|
| Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 2:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
howcome the body has to come off?
Even if i gutted the interior? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
