Are type IV late bay fan housings the same?

[ivwshane]

So while taking apart my engine to freshen everything up, it turns out that the non-return flaps were rtv'd open because apparently they were broken (either the flap itself or the bracket on the housing where they attach). So it looks like I need a new housing but I want to know if there is anything I need to be aware of before I go searching the classifieds. If it matters, my engine case is a GE.



Also some what related; while taking off the fan assembly, behind it where the fan spacer should be, there was what looks like a pulley instead (it was keyed to fit just like the spacer would be). Is this correct? The Bentley shows what looks like a thick washer and I don't see anything resembling what I have.




So far I have found that my "stock" engine:
Isn't stock
Isn't a GD engine
Was missing the thermostat
Had its non-return flaps stuck in the open position
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77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab

[busdaddy]

They all fit, some have ears on the top to mount the smog pump, Vanagon ones lack the lower outlets to the heat exchangers so avoid those.

The non return flaps aren't super critical unless spend hours every day sitting in a traffic jam when it's cold and wet, aside from helping the booster fan output at idle they really don't do much.
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[ivwshane]

[rastomas]

What Ratwell's talking about, as far as the overheating goes, is that if the "upper flaps",( the ones inside of the booster fan) are missing, when the engine is running, the engine fan is pushing heated air "backwards" into the engine, and constantly recycling heated air, which may lead to too-hotness.

The lower ones do pretty much the same job.
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"It's not 'You are what you eat', it's 'You are what you don't SHIT". Wavy Gravy.


'74 Westy

[ivwshane]

[Tcash]

As busdaddy posted. When sitting in traffic or at idle the engine fan speed and air pressure is lower than the auxiliary fan air pressure. This is where the non return flaps come into play. They shut keeping the hot air from the aux. fan from entering the engine cooling fan. Which would cause increased temps.

Note there are non return flaps in the aux fan. When the aux fan is not on they close keeping the hot air from entering the engine compartment through the aux fan. Which would cause increased temps.

[ivwshane]

So it turns out that my "fan spacer" was actually am accessory pulley (the bus did have A/C at one point).

So then the question becomes, should I run with just the pulley and ignore the spacer or should I ditch the pulley and find a spacer?

If I keep the pulley then I shouldn't have to worry about anything else but if I swap it for a spacer then doesn't that change the depth of the fan hub and wouldn't I need different size bolts too?

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77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab

[busdaddy]

The spacer and the pulley should both be the same thickness, the pulley hurts nothing going along for the ride there, leave it alone.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

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[ivwshane]

[Wildthings]

The system was designed to be able to use a pulley in that position, either to run an AC pump, a governor, or other. If the pulley isn't needed a spacer is substituted in its place. As BD mentioned running the pulley in lieu of the spacer hurts nothing.

I haven't run the non return flaps in decades, they tend to break off and get blown into the heat exchangers thus restricting the air flow through the heat exchangers. They were needed on the Type 4 cars which had a gas heater tied into the heating system that could be run with the engine off. Without the flaps there the Type 4 gas heater could not have push much air forward into the cab. They really do very little if anything on a bus cause even at idle the cooling fan is still putting out some volume and pressure.

Why does it look like your oil pump has JB Weld smeared all over it?

[ivwshane]

[Wildthings]

[ivwshane]

So my current housing is a GD, part #021.119.225A. It has the dipstick tube on the side and no tuning hole at the top.

Busco has a 021.119.215D but I cannot tell what it's features are.

Ideally I'd like a housing that matches my case which is a GE.

Does anyone know the difference between the three (or two) housings? I know they will all fit but I'm not interested in doing any mods to make one or the other work and I prefer it to be stock.
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77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab

[Wildthings]

I think all the 1975 and later housing are the same. The '72 housings were shared by the 411/412 cars and the transporter, while the '73-74 housings had the mounts for the air pump.

Unless you need to have a working air pump, the housings will all interchange, so choosing the one in the best condition would make sense.

The Vanagon fan shroud is a different animal and isn't suitable for use if you intended to hook up and use the original heater boxes.

[ivwshane]

Other things I learned is that the charcoal canister on 78/79 is mounted behind the battery where as for a 77 the canister is on the firewall. This matters because on GD cases there is a nipple on the fan shroud whereas on the 78/79 the air comes out of the right side cover tin.

I decided to get the part from bustedbus because they were super helpful in getting me the best fit for my application (as opposed to getting what I thought I needed).
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77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab

[furgo]

If I'm not mistaken, there were differences in the size of the alternator boot hole between fan shroud years too:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7875972&highlight=fan+shroud#7875972
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=638029
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6861756

Can you not just replace the flaps, or is your original fan shroud itself broken around that area too? (I did not quite understand it from your original post)
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'79 Westy, P22 interior, FI 2.0 l Federal, GE engine (hydraulic lifters)

Decode your M-Plate

[SGKent]

is this the spacer being discussed?


first photo Samba gallery of Wasted Youth

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George Carlin:
"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it."

Skills@EuroCarsPlus:
"never time to do it right but always time to do it twice"

[jtauxe]

BTW, the non-return flaps at the bottom of the shroud can (and probably should, IMO) be replaced. German Supply has good repros (hmm... seem to be out of stock right now)
http://www.germansupply.com/home/customer/product.php?productid=17440
http://www.germansupply.com/home/customer/product.php?productid=17805
or you can fashion your own like I did out of an aluminum pie tin or lasagna pan (or, 'round these parts, and enchilada pan).
_________________
John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD

[ivwshane]

[ivwshane]