Winston's Instrument Cluster: The Enlightenment

[msinabottle]

Frankly, I do think that the entire cluster is just starved for voltage.

Today it occurred to me that I hadn't cleaned the headlight switch, and that definitely affected the tach, the flashing coolant LED, and the illumination of the instrument cluster. I hadn't reassembled the cluster after last night's cleaning, so I went out and cleaned that switch--and every other switch--with non-plastic-eating contact cleaner and steel wool on the tab ends.

I was a bit stunned when the cluster suddenly lit up as I tested the switch. All four lights, including the clock. It didn't STAY lit, in fact the 2nd time I tried it, it didn't light. But when I came back a bit later, it lit right up again, also, when running, the tach doesn't seem to drop down as far as it had been when I turn on the lights. The LED coolant light went out, and the clock was keeping good time. The blue 'high beam' LED lights up, as does the green turn signal flasher. The 'brake system' light hasn't been lighting with the parking brake on, but the seat belt light turns on and off as it should.

I'd say these are mostly good signs. I think I'll replace Winston's voltage regulator as soon as I can, and charge his battery, which has been running the lights a lot and only charged by short trips. I do wonder if I did something in connecting Winston's high-powered light relays that starves the panel for juice.

I'm not sure if Winston's alternator, which looks stock, has the kind of VR you can replace along with the brushes. Before I do that, I should see what kind of voltage Winston's putting out at the alternator and across the battery. I think I'll also put on a new instrument panel voltage regulator, as I've mentioned, when I tested it with my analog multi-tester, it read 11v., which the Bentley says is a half volt high.

I was a bit stunned when I was looking for voltage leaks and turned on the old A/C switch and heard a blower responding at once. I've been removing every vestige of Winston's long-gone air conditioning since I got him, the P.O. had taken away most of it. I need to learn how to check for voltage leaks.

I'm ignorant, but very stubborn. But it does look like Winston's coming along.

[buspor63]

Light at the end of the tunnel!
You should have the 90 amp alternator. The regulator is the all included type. With it installed on the engine, the lower screw is tough to get to. I tried my offset screwdriver, didnt do the job(completely useless tool so far, i've had one for 25 years and still havent found a job for it) A vice grip will get the job done. The locking needle nose is usefull.

[msinabottle]

All right...

Expert friend arrived to visit Winston, had me disconnect the tach wire, spent time pouring over the Bentley, thinks it might be the voltage regulator and a short to be identified later. Much later. Does not think cluster is starved for voltage, has doubts about panel voltage rectifier.

Current symptoms:

Instrument cluster lights only light when the engine is off and the lights are on. Heater control and cigarette lighter ring do light and respond to dimmer.

Front blower fan now does not work. Rear one does.

Radio does not respond, power leads and ground checked. Fuse possibly blown in radio, cannot check.

High Beam Blue LED lights when retrofitted H4 halogens bulbs are on LOW beam.

Tach drops and coolant warning LED disappear when lights turned on.

I've cleaned the grounds, I may have disconnected the front blower. I think I'll replace all the fuses on general principles. I am not doing well with this and am slowly becoming very discouraged.

Further bulletins...

[mightyart]

I gotta say it.
It sounds like your trying to "reinvent the wheel".
Now what was wrong with your old cluster? just didn't have a tach right.
You need to put your old one back together and get it working the way it was and then try adding the tach, get that working, get the fuel working, then the temp. and then try adding the clock.
Get one thing working at a time.
I've seen this happen a few times and have done it myself.
I get a little extra money, go buy several new parts and get ready to put them on over the weekend, get a bit excited and just put them all one at once.
Time to try out all the new stuff and oh no something isn't working right!
Oh crap, I don't want to undo all the work I just did! maybe something broke when I put this other stuff on, I think I'll go buy more stuff!
I try not to fall into this trap anymore and put on and test one thing at a time, but it don't always work, I kind of did the same thing with mine.
You have to do like the very hairy Beatles said and "get back to where you once belonged" or put the pod back the way it was and start again.
Sorry to be a jerk, but these things can suck up your time, you want to go camping don't you.
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[msinabottle]

But really the only thing I did was to put in the new cluster with a wiring changeover that had worked for buspor63. What isn't working since is the problem, and it's a weird problem.

I mean, I COULD go camping with Winston--just, right now, no radio, and I never touched it when installing the new cluster. I never touched the blower fan! You hope that folk can see the pattern from experience and tell you what the Sam Hill's going on.

Current theory is that I knocked loose a wire on the blower, and that somehow the fuse got blown on the radio. Something weird's going on with the light circuit, and, long before the new cluster, I put in Terry K's relay kit and they were working fine. There are variables that don't make sense to me. I keep hoping--a lot--that they make sense to someone.

Thanks, though, Mightyart, for the advice.

[msinabottle]

My blower doesn't work... I find by searching that blower switches often fail... But I also find that other factors affect them.

My radio doesn't work... I find that radios can quit working if the ignition switch doesn't send them power.

My high-beams are screwed up. They are on the column.

I am thinking that perhaps the ignition switch--which is a new one--has failed again.

Any ideas on this angle?

[buspor63]

It might be time to do as mightyart says, put it OG and see what gets fixed. I was lucky enough to have another bus to swap around cluster with, take notes, fix and fiddle then reinstall.

[psych-illogical]

Sounds like you're having the same problems I had. Before you get excited, I'll have to say that I finally got frustrated and gave up. I'm hoping you find the magic fix and post it here. Mine's an 83 Westy 1.9L and I bought a cluster w/ tach (from an 85) and changed all the wiring around in the 14 pin connector to match what was in the Bentley wiring diagram for the 85 w/ tach. My symptoms sound the same as yours. No dash lights, tach would drop drastically when I'd turn on the headlights, flashing LED would flash incessantly, etc., etc. I put the wiring back the way it was in the 14 pin and put my old cluster back in. Everything worked the way it did before I started the project so I just called it quits. Good luck.
_________________
83 1/2 Westy waterboxer
'57 Beetle-sold
Coupla '81 BMW motorcycles (R80G/S; R100RS)
'96 BMW R1100GS

[msinabottle]

After all, the instrument lights DO come on--just not when the engine is running. There's a signal somewhere that's not being received.

The radio and the fan are maddening--I am going to investigate further. I'm not quite ready to give up, just tired and discouraged. Today I'll check fuses and the fuse bar, and trace the wires from the fan blower. There's no good reason for all this. One other thought is to find a tach from an '84. But I bet there's a fix... Probably just a wire going to the right place.

Thanks for the suggestions and support.

[vandukw]

Hey , I have 84 westy and want to put in tach from 89 but youre scaring me. I have a haynes manaul that shows the 14 pin connector however the pin locations do not correspond correctly with whats in my van.

[msinabottle]

I win.

Everything but the radio and the fan blower is now working--and there may be hope for those, but the cluster and the instrument lights and the tach are all definitely working. It's fixed. Darn but this feels good, and every now and then getting one's stubborn up pays off.

I spent the day--feeling rather off, bad allergies and a strained sore throat--researching. Re-Googled 'vanagon' and 'tachometer.' Hadn't found much, but when you're desperate...

And I stumbled onto this URL, with which a lot of you--and you know you you are--are doubltless familiar:

http://gerry.vanagon.com/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A0=vanagon

'tachometer' there proved rather illuminating. Here's the fix, I think buspor63 lost track of it in all his tinkering, and I imagine it's very, very good news to psych-illogical, because he gets to have a tach now. It was on a thread for putting a tach into an air cooled Vanagon, but I figured my problem was more likely the age of Winston's harness (He was assembled in 12/84) than in some later refinement.

In the old T14 arrangement, there are two brown grounding wires, originally in sockets numbers 2 and 5. There is only room for ONE ground wire in the arrangement of the T14 required for the later printed circuit with a tach. This is where I stumbled into Purgatory.

THE BROWN WIRE FROM SOCKET NUMBER 5 IN THE OLD T1 MUST GO INTO SOCKET NUMBER 3 IN THE NEW ARRANGMENT!

You can jumper or, as I'm going to do tomorrow, put in a tap and connect the brown wire from socket number TWO to that ground, but the brown ground in Socket Number 5 is the one that controls the instrument lights, the high beam indicator, and so forth, and THAT is the wire that must be in the T14 socket. It should be rather obvious that psych-illogical and I both had the wrong ground in the wrong socket. The tach no longer drops to zero when I try the lights. The 'flash to pass' function works perfectly. High beams have the blue indicator LED.

I didn't get my radio back, and the fan blower's still out, but I think those are unrelated problems, although they may go away when I ground the 2nd ground wire, the one in #2 on the old arrangment--to that ground. It's quite likely the switch went bad on the front blower, the radio--not sure. I'll poke around there some more, and if anyone DOES have the Pioneer radio key, I'd love to borrow it.

Here are the pinouts, buspor63's research modified with what I learned from the Vanagon Mailing List archive and tested today on Winston:

I celebrated my win by installing four amber LED bulbs (using Dogpilot's drill) in the cluster's four sockets, eventually successfully, they're polarity sensitive and I got slightly less than half right on the first try. The USAF finds Amber the least destructive shade for night vision, it worked and looks lovely in Winston's now functional cluster illumination. Also stuck an LED bulb in the current dome light, and bought a multi-volt 9mm 'flashlight' LED bulb for the Coleman magnetic tent light I bought for Winston's tent. All tested and working.

And I am very happy, and very tired. Thanks for the help and support.

[buspor63]

AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Now i'm going to have to go out and redo things to see if I can duplicate your troubles. There is a chance that I I used the '84 year #5 ground in the '85 year #3 ground spot That may explain my success

Something you said that has had me puzzeled was the lack of a heater fan???
My '84 with the '85 tach has a non-functioning heater fan?? I didnt worry because the bus came with a electric heater/fan screwed to the dash at the base of the windshield. When I turn the front fan on, I hear the alt groan and the lheadlight will dim. I assumed the fan motor was frozen. The chase is on.

Rob, You Da Man!

I'll check my production dates also.

[msinabottle]

... don't turn on. Probably the switch just bit the big one, or I dislodged something when I was cleaning the grounds. That's one good thing, the work you do with the wrong idea isn't necessarily wasted.

Not a whit the less grateful for your help, dear busp, what was bedeviling Winston and psych-illogical just needed a dipstick through its heart, a mouth filled with old gaskets, and the coffin lid nailed down.

Still tired, but smiling.

[Dogpilot]

Your correct that the heater fan and radio are related to something different. It sounds like a mechanical wire dislodge. When you feel better, you can make a hot jumper and go to the hot wire on your radio, then your fan blower. If they get better, then you know to search the hot circuit. If not, your problem lies in the ground. Do the same with a ground jumper. If that is the problem, just cut splice and create a new ground, closer to the heater/radio. Get a crimp with a 5/15 hole and put it on one of the bolts for your ground on one of the many bolts down there. BTW, does your cigarette lighter socket work? I think the radio and heater share that ground.

Don't feel bad, I have to yank my engine. My multiple oil seal leaks where a wallowed out rear bearing. Time for the rebuilt engine.

Cheers,
James
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86 Syncro Westy AKA "The Bughunter"
98 Disco I
08 Range Rover SC
08 VW Rabbit S
1951 O-1G

[psych-illogical]

How sweet it is !! Awesome job. I can't wait to get in there and try this again. I saw that the original set-up had the 2 brown ground wires and that the '85 set-up had only one. I just couldn't figure out what the heck to do with the extra one. I'm gonna follow the chart that you posted and I'll let you know how it goes. Good luck with the heater/radio thing.

I'm going to try to replace the heater blower motor in a couple of weekends so I'll do the gauge cluster at the same time.

Once again, a million thanks for your persistance.
_________________
83 1/2 Westy waterboxer
'57 Beetle-sold
Coupla '81 BMW motorcycles (R80G/S; R100RS)
'96 BMW R1100GS