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sinclair
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Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 443
Location: New Forest UK
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 Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 2:41 am Post subject: Barndoor. narrowed and dropped spindles question. |
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I've narrowed beams before, but what are the differences on a Barndoor?
And how about the spindles, anything to lookout for when dropping them?
Any advice would be most welcome  |
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Long-roofs
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Joined: March 20, 2002
Posts: 2377
Location: Millwood, Wa
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 9:21 am Post subject: |
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When I did mine, I didn't have the stock spindles or trailing arms. So I installed '64-'67 torsions, torsion retainers, trailing arms and drop spindles into the original Barndoor beam. The problem with this is the swing lever box/pin. The angles on the tie-rods are all wrong and won't turn right. I removed swing lever box and installed a later one in the center, so now I have equal length tie-rods like a later bus. You then have to install a '55-'67 bus steering box (barndoors turn opposite). If I were to start today, I would start with a new beam, add the barndoor mounting brackets.
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splitpile
Samba's Worst Speller
Joined: May 03, 2000
Posts: 5928
Location: back to living where hell meets the suface
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 9:21 am Post subject: |
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It's best just to build a new beam and use later brakes, then you could restore the front (BD) beam/brakes for future back to stock look
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BeaterBarndoor
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Joined: December 15, 2000
Posts: 839
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 9:31 am Post subject: |
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when i did my dropped set up on my 53, i just used "63" spindles.they have late brakes and small link pin.they worked fine but the trick was i made a "step" from the tierod mount on the spindle to step it up to relocate the tierod into the same position as a barndoor tierod would be.this maintained the proper turning dimensions.for tierods,i just used late beetle if i remember right.this also allowed me to install a steering dampner like a beetle would use.
i ran this set up for roughly 3 years with no tire wear issues.
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Long-roofs
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Joined: March 20, 2002
Posts: 2377
Location: Millwood, Wa
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| BeaterBarndoor wrote: |
when i did my dropped set up on my 53, i just used "63" spindles.they have late brakes and small link pin.they worked fine but the trick was i made a "step" from the tierod mount on the spindle to step it up to relocate the tierod into the same position as a barndoor tierod would be.this maintained the proper turning dimensions.for tierods,i just used late beetle if i remember right.this also allowed me to install a steering dampner like a beetle would use.
i ran this set up for roughly 3 years with no tire wear issues. |
The 'step' you made, on the driver's side only? I thought about it and seemed like driver's side was the issue.
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sinclair
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 443
Location: New Forest UK
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| Ok so this is one I built for my own '60. Note I build in a second thrust bearing on the dropped spindles and mount the tie rods from underneath. Why can't I do the same on a barndoor ?http://images5.fotopic.net/?iid=y4m620&outx=800&quality=70 |
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Barndoor Mafia
Il Capo
Joined: August 23, 2001
Posts: 6195
Location: EUSKAL HERRIA
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| BeaterBarndoor wrote: |
when i did my dropped set up on my 53, i just used "63" spindles.they have late brakes and small link pin.they worked fine but the trick was i made a "step" from the tierod mount on the spindle to step it up to relocate the tierod into the same position as a barndoor tierod would be.this maintained the proper turning dimensions.for tierods,i just used late beetle if i remember right.this also allowed me to install a steering dampner like a beetle would use.
i ran this set up for roughly 3 years with no tire wear issues. |
I did the same to mine! I used the old "Rafferty Technique"!!!! Chuck D taught you this one right?
Mark, don't forget two pairs of those pressed bumper splash pans. And ask Krissi Hanukkah if I can borrow is his Kipa!
Laydo |
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rizzag
Now Wut?
Joined: April 19, 2001
Posts: 3127
Location: Keizer, OR
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 10:26 am Post subject: |
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have you looked at a set of barndoor spindles? look at the difference bwetwen there the tierod ends mount
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BeaterBarndoor
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Joined: December 15, 2000
Posts: 839
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| Long-roofs wrote: |
| BeaterBarndoor wrote: |
when i did my dropped set up on my 53, i just used "63" spindles.they have late brakes and small link pin.they worked fine but the trick was i made a "step" from the tierod mount on the spindle to step it up to relocate the tierod into the same position as a barndoor tierod would be.this maintained the proper turning dimensions.for tierods,i just used late beetle if i remember right.this also allowed me to install a steering dampner like a beetle would use.
i ran this set up for roughly 3 years with no tire wear issues. |
The 'step' you made, on the driver's side only? I thought about it and seemed like driver's side was the issue. |
no, i made the same step for both sides. i sat under the bus for hours measuring every angle as the wheels were turned right or left. and all options i could think of and this worked out the best and both wheels measured the same during turns as well as the degree of turn for inner wheel versus outer wheel.its been a few years but im pretty sure both sides needed to be repositioned.visually it looked as if the drivers only needed it but the measurements proved out of whack.
ill try to dig pictures up or try to find those spindles.i changed them up for a more complicated set up.but now i run beetle wide 5 discs up front .
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sinclair
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 443
Location: New Forest UK
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| rizzag wrote: |
| have you looked at a set of barndoor spindles? look at the difference bwetwen there the tierod ends mount |
No I haven't. This isn't my bus, but I take it there are some major differences then  |
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BeaterBarndoor
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Joined: December 15, 2000
Posts: 839
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| Barndoor Mafia wrote: |
| BeaterBarndoor wrote: |
when i did my dropped set up on my 53, i just used "63" spindles.they have late brakes and small link pin.they worked fine but the trick was i made a "step" from the tierod mount on the spindle to step it up to relocate the tierod into the same position as a barndoor tierod would be.this maintained the proper turning dimensions.for tierods,i just used late beetle if i remember right.this also allowed me to install a steering dampner like a beetle would use.
i ran this set up for roughly 3 years with no tire wear issues. |
I did the same to mine! I used the old "Rafferty Technique"!!!! Chuck D taught you this one right?
Mark, don't forget two pairs of those pressed bumper splash pans. And ask Krissi Hanukkah if I can borrow is his Kipa!
Laydo |
ill try to squeeze them in between the cases of guinness and murphys.priorities my son!
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Long-roofs
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Joined: March 20, 2002
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Location: Millwood, Wa
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 10:42 am Post subject: |
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Here is a barndoor spindle. Rizzag would know about these...
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BeaterBarndoor
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Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 10:48 am Post subject: |
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heres what i have for pics.not quite as clean.first is BD.tierod arm is up top like beetle. 2nd is my old spindles.my adaptor is kinda crude but worked just fine.
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Long-roofs
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Location: Millwood, Wa
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 10:57 am Post subject: |
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Wow, that is a big step. What do you have now for spindles with the disc brakes?
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BeaterBarndoor
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Joined: December 15, 2000
Posts: 839
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| Long-roofs wrote: |
| Wow, that is a big step. What do you have now for spindles with the disc brakes? |
now im running balljoint beetle trail arms to accomodate beetle spindles and disc brake options. keep in mind this was done before all these bus brake options started coming out. doing this conversion has its perks and drawbacks.im still attempting to make a change for the drawback but its not a priority.
the perks, it automatically narrows about 1inch per side,not even narrowing the beam,which i also just knocked off the outer collars to narrow just a bit more to fit the raders without issue.it also automatically lowers the bus as the spindle is in a different location than a bus.so stock ride suspension is still there.and the tierod location is basically the same as BD .no need for the adaptor.
the drawback, i had to modify slats to fit into the beetle arms which mean i lose the spring tension.so this means my weight loads arent as good. no big gals alowed in theis bus.
i have intensions of finding sombody to mate a bus trail arm to a beetle ball end.use later bus slats and roll.
ive been running this set up for just over a year i think. no issues other than the load limit so far.
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Long-roofs
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 11:30 am Post subject: |
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Looks good! I started on mine 7 years ago, and alot has changed in the lowering for sure. Two things with mine that I wanted was the later bus leaf pack and later brakes....at the time seemed like I wanted the later tie-rods/swing lever box. I talked to George back in 2000 about keeping barndoor swing lever box with late spindles, he said it would work. Looks like you made it work too.
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BeaterBarndoor
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Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| Long-roofs wrote: |
| Looks good! I started on mine 7 years ago, and alot has changed in the lowering for sure. Two things with mine that I wanted was the later bus leaf pack and later brakes....at the time seemed like I wanted the later tie-rods/swing lever box. I talked to George back in 2000 about keeping barndoor swing lever box with late spindles, he said it would work. Looks like you made it work too. |
thanks,after coming across a few BD beams i find the slats are at least a few cracked in half.i decided to also swap slats to the later more plentiful ones.i sectioned in the center blocks from a later beam into the BD but with the beetle set up i had to knock the size down on the ends to slide the beetle arms on.thats where i lose my suspension.its still cushy but i cant haul as much without the tires getting too close.
ON Bulli brigade w/e i ended up being a designated airport hauler and had about 7 people in there .it was fine but any good bumps and the front tires were barking.
i cant say i have any problems with the BD center pin/tierods.to rebuild the pin ,use the same bushings for a later kit.tierods ,i want to say i use super beetle?(bigger diameter tierod ends)
i had been throwing the idea around on getting one of these new bus disc set ups but i like the fact of the auto narrow/lower with this beetle set up. once i get some trail arms custom made it should be perfect.
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sinclair
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Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 443
Location: New Forest UK
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks guys. I appreciate the pics. So is it ok to fit beetle ball joint trailing arms to a narrowed (say 4") BD beam, with forged beetle dropped spindles and discs. Narrowing the torsion springs will firm it up a little and maybe some coil over dampers if it's still a little too soft.  What do you think. |
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BeaterBarndoor
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Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| sinclair wrote: |
| Thanks guys. I appreciate the pics. So is it ok to fit beetle ball joint trailing arms to a narrowed (say 4") BD beam, with forged beetle dropped spindles and discs. Narrowing the torsion springs will firm it up a little and maybe some coil over dampers if it's still a little too soft. What do you think. |
its more involved than it sounds.the beetle arms dont just slide into the BD beam.i had to have sleeves made to mount onto the trail arms and take up the gap when slipped into the beam.you could,if you have a source,have some new bushings made to replace the ones inside the beam to make up the play and accomodate the smaller diameter beetle arms.
narrowing the slats might allow it to have more tension.not sure but it sounds like it might work.
my bus drives fine with a couple people but if you plan to haul heavy stuff, id stay away from this conversion.
i would stay away from dropped spindles.i think(memory) i raised mine up a couple clicks from its stock(beetle)position using the adjusters.i think dropped spindles may leave you sitting on the stearing box,wheel well resting on the tires.
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sinclair
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Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 443
Location: New Forest UK
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| BeaterBarndoor wrote: |
| sinclair wrote: |
| Thanks guys. I appreciate the pics. So is it ok to fit beetle ball joint trailing arms to a narrowed (say 4") BD beam, with forged beetle dropped spindles and discs. Narrowing the torsion springs will firm it up a little and maybe some coil over dampers if it's still a little too soft. What do you think. |
its more involved than it sounds.the beetle arms dont just slide into the BD beam.i had to have sleeves made to mount onto the trail arms and take up the gap when slipped into the beam.you could,if you have a source,have some new bushings made to replace the ones inside the beam to make up the play and accomodate the smaller diameter beetle arms.
narrowing the slats might allow it to have more tension.not sure but it sounds like it might work.
my bus drives fine with a couple people but if you plan to haul heavy stuff, id stay away from this conversion.
i would stay away from dropped spindles.i think(memory) i raised mine up a couple clicks from its stock(beetle)position using the adjusters.i think dropped spindles may leave you sitting on the stearing box,wheel well resting on the tires. |
Thanks for that BeaterBarndoor. machining bushes is no problem, I think my client wants low rather than comfort the use of beetle parts makes things a lot easier for me. not that many bd's around in the Uk to look at.
Cheers. |
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