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Mr. Twisted
Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2003
Posts: 205
Location: Tennessee
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 Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:16 pm Post subject: Pop Out Seals: Things have changed |
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I'm redoing a couple of my Pop Out windows due to a fire, and I've had to order a new glass to frame seal. Started re-assembly tonite, and discovered the new seal is way different in size compared to the old seals I used five or six years ago. Anyone else seen this difference in size? Whats the deal.
I'm guessing that like everything else these new seals are cheaper to make, less rubber etc...They are a real bitch to get in, because now the glass is streching the seal in order to get the frames together. The older ones were a much nicer fit. Anyone have any insight on this.
In the picture below the one on the left is the newer seal, the one on the right is my older one. notice on the older one how much more seal there is on the glass surface. The newer seal does not even cover the two small casting holes in the glass.
In the picture below the new seal is on top, older one below. You can see the casting hole also.
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'67 13 window dlx.
If you're off the Bus, you're not on the Bus...... |
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j.pickens
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2002
Posts: 9831
Location: Exit 7, New Jersey
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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In general, repro rubber seals SUCK!
Doors, vent wings, sliders, popout, none of them fit correctly.
I'm getting really tired of slamming front doors, using two hands to latch and unlatch vent wings, and nearly breaking the popout weld tab every time I open a popout!
Oh, and as to your specific issue, I've installed popout frames and found that the glass was so tight in the seal, that it sliced right through the seal when installed.
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Douglas Denlinger
Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2003
Posts: 1404
Location: Arizona's version of the east coast
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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WCM, inner poput to glass seal have always been right on the $
The WBW have been this way for quite a while, unfortunately.
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Pacmanfever
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2013
Posts: 201
Location: Kansas
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| I'd love to hear from some others that have bought and installed seals recently. We're just getting ready to do a set of 6 on my son's Bus and I've held off ordering seals for fear of getting some bad sets. |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11204
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Pacmanfever wrote: |
| I'd love to hear from some others that have bought and installed seals recently. We're just getting ready to do a set of 6 on my son's Bus and I've held off ordering seals for fear of getting some bad sets. |
Given the amount of experience here and the need for good info, wouldn;'t it be nice if there were a sticky detailing people's experience with various aftermarket seals and other restoration parts so we would all know where to go to buy the best? For example, it seems that one vendor may sell the best doglegs but their competition sells the best belly pans, etc etc etc. It takes copious amounts of searching to find info so the same questions get asked over and over.
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crofty
Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000
Posts: 19825
Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Braukuche wrote: |
Given the amount of experience here and the need for good info, wouldn;'t it be nice if there were a sticky detailing people's experience with various aftermarket seals and other restoration parts so we would all know where to go to buy the best? For example, it seems that one vendor may sell the best doglegs but their competition sells the best belly pans, etc etc etc. It takes copious amounts of searching to find info so the same questions get asked over and over. |
The problem is that the manufacturers will start posting about how their product is better than so and so's and vice versa and it all falls to crap soon afterward. Look at the Autocraft Vs. Klassic Fab thread. For every guy that posts actual experience with the product you get 20 blow hard, ass kissers praising how great it is that the parts are available and the manufacturer walks across water on his way to work everyday.
If you could eliminate that crap it would be a great thread to have.
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Mr. Twisted
Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2003
Posts: 205
Location: Tennessee
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Douglas Denlinger wrote: |
WCM, inner poput to glass seal have always been right on the $
The WBW have been this way for quite a while, unfortunately. |
And that may be the difference in these two seals, I remember running into this when i first did these seals years back. One suppler was way wrong, the other was spot on. I even did an article for Hot VW's on the restoration process. I'll order one from WCM and see what I get.....I'll be happy to post the results...
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'67 13 window dlx.
If you're off the Bus, you're not on the Bus...... |
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ricekooker
Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2006
Posts: 1790
Location: Sanford, FL
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. Twisted wrote: |
| Douglas Denlinger wrote: |
WCM, inner poput to glass seal have always been right on the $
The WBW have been this way for quite a while, unfortunately. |
And that may be the difference in these two seals, I remember running into this when i first did these seals years back. One suppler was way wrong, the other was spot on. I even did an article for Hot VW's on the restoration process. I'll order one from WCM and see what I get.....I'll be happy to post the results... |
Please update this thread with your findings. I have 6 new WBW seals that I just received that will be headed back to them if they are that far off. |
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Mr. Twisted
Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2003
Posts: 205
Location: Tennessee
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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I just checked the WCM web site, and it shows they have none of the glass to frame seals in stock.....
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'67 13 window dlx.
If you're off the Bus, you're not on the Bus...... |
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kenshapiro2002
Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2013
Posts: 1826
Location: Bawlmer Hon
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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Doing my pop outs now, but not replacing any glass to frame seals, just the ones that go on the body and the ones that go on the outside of the pop outs. Using only WW seals and they are excellent.
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earlywesty
Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2004
Posts: 2378
Location: In the woods, Ontario
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| crofty wrote: |
| Braukuche wrote: |
Given the amount of experience here and the need for good info, wouldn;'t it be nice if there were a sticky detailing people's experience with various aftermarket seals and other restoration parts so we would all know where to go to buy the best? For example, it seems that one vendor may sell the best doglegs but their competition sells the best belly pans, etc etc etc. It takes copious amounts of searching to find info so the same questions get asked over and over. |
The problem is that the manufacturers will start posting about how their product is better than so and so's and vice versa and it all falls to crap soon afterward. Look at the Autocraft Vs. Klassic Fab thread. For every guy that posts actual experience with the product you get 20 blow hard, ass kissers praising how great it is that the parts are available and the manufacturer walks across water on his way to work everyday.
If you could eliminate that crap it would be a great thread to have. |
Hear, hear! |
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otis_bartleh
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2009
Posts: 1151
Location: Burlington, WA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| kenshapiro2002 wrote: |
| Doing my pop outs now, ... the ones that go on the outside of the pop outs. Using only WW seals and they are excellent. |
You're lucky. I used WW seals for this, and mine suck. They are so loose in the frame that opening and closing the pop-out can pull the seal from the grooves. I was able to put the seal in the frame by hand, and they just shake around in there...
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'59 Mango Bus
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kenshapiro2002
Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2013
Posts: 1826
Location: Bawlmer Hon
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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Anybody used any of the aftermarket window frames themselves? What's the experience with them?
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kenshapiro2002
Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2013
Posts: 1826
Location: Bawlmer Hon
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:27 am Post subject: |
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OK...got the WW seal and yes...it's VERY small...much smaller than stock. I called them and they said they work fine. The guy I spoke to said he did a set of six a month ago, and they are a bitch to install but work and have worked for years. Anyway, just ordered one from Bustorations and one from WCM. As soon as they arrive I'll take a picture and write up a review.
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otis_bartleh
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2009
Posts: 1151
Location: Burlington, WA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| kenshapiro2002 wrote: |
| OK...got the WW seal and yes...it's VERY small...much smaller than stock. I called them and they said they work fine. The guy I spoke to said he did a set of six a month ago, and they are a bitch to install but work and have worked for years. Anyway, just ordered one from Bustorations and one from WCM. As soon as they arrive I'll take a picture and write up a review. |
Yeah, the WW ones do work, but like I mentioned, opening the windows starts to pull the seal from the frame. I don't understand the "bitch to install"... They are so small they are easy to get in the frame by hand...
I also have one from Bustoration going in when I get another latch, and the one from Bustoration is a WCM iirc...
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'59 Mango Bus
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kenshapiro2002
Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2013
Posts: 1826
Location: Bawlmer Hon
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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OK...WCM called me back to tell me they are NOT in stock and don't have any idea when they will be in stock, so I cancelled the order. Got the one from Bustorations today. It was a WW one...same thing I already have. Guess I'll be installing a small one tomorrow.
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Looking for a correct 1967 rear seat
Looking for '67 Engine / Block HO 183xxx - HO 194xxx |
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otis_bartleh
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2009
Posts: 1151
Location: Burlington, WA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| kenshapiro2002 wrote: |
| OK...WCM called me back to tell me they are NOT in stock and don't have any idea when they will be in stock, so I cancelled the order. Got the one from Bustorations today. It was a WW one...same thing I already have. Guess I'll be installing a small one tomorrow. |
I just checked the seals I recently got, and I did get WCM seals from Bustoration, but I was mistaken on which seals I got, it was the pop out body seals I got, not the frame seals. I already had those, from WW... Sorry to mislead...
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'59 Mango Bus
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thom
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2000
Posts: 6171
Location: Sacramento
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| crofty wrote: |
The problem is that the manufacturers will start posting about how their product is better than so and so's and vice versa and it all falls to crap soon afterward. Look at the Autocraft Vs. Klassic Fab thread. For every guy that posts actual experience with the product you get 20 blow hard, ass kissers praising how great it is that the parts are available and the manufacturer walks across water on his way to work everyday.
If you could eliminate that crap it would be a great thread to have. |
+999E3
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kenshapiro2002
Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2013
Posts: 1826
Location: Bawlmer Hon
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:28 am Post subject: |
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So, I installed the WW seal this morning. It worked out well. It wasn't an easy job because I didn't use any clamps or jig which would have helped. To get the screws in, I was leaning against the frame with all of my weight while bearing down on the screwdriver with all of my weight to get the first few threads in. After all of that, I realized that I'd put the glass in inside out, which meant that the logo was in the wrong corner (upper left on left side window, instead of upper right), and therefore reading backward. The install was such a PITA, that I decided to leave it that way instead of redoing it! Just as I finished, the crew that was coming to cut down some trees for me showed up and a Mexican guy came jogging down toward me yelling, "KOMBI"!!! It was a nice moment.
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Stocknazi
Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 5460
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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So are the WCM the best seals for the pop outs as of now?
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