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dwill49965
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2005
Posts: 1396
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
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 Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 4:16 pm Post subject: Heavy duty sway bar install - pics FAQ |
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Today I installed my heavy duty front sway bar that I got from Scott at German Supply a few weeks ago. It went very smoothly (almost too smoothly?), with just one minor glitch - the supplied bolts are the same length as stock, and they don't extend far enough through the thicker bar for a good grip. I tried using an air impact wrench to "snug" it up, but all I did was strip off the lower protruding threads off the bolt, thereby ruining it. I will replace these later.
I did the install on the hoist at the local military auto hobby shop - which helped immensely, although it wouldn't be impossible doing this at home on jackstands.
Of course, I read Ratwell's page on the sway-bar install beforehand, so I was aware of some of the pitfalls. I also took lots of before and after pics in case I didn't remember how things went together. Things all came apart quite easily, which is half the battle on any job. Now the red urethane bushings match my red Konis. I noticed a great improvement in the handling right away. So, Koni's, heavy duty sway bar - oops! damn my underspec Michelin LTX M+S tires!!! They're next ....
Before:
_________________
Darryl
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'78 Westy, Boston Bob built 2.0 L, FI, MSD 6A
| Meyer wrote: |
| Lastly, you just referred to US citizens as 'Americans'. Exactly what kind of Canadian are you? From what continent? |
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slaw
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Joined: October 15, 2002
Posts: 260
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| Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| How is the ride affected? |
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dwill49965
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2005
Posts: 1396
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
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| Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| slaw wrote: |
| How is the ride affected? |
Noticeably less lean in corners and switching lanes. Of course, I've only tested it on the way home, about 15 minutes, with a slight detour for a quick highway run. As for just straight ahead ride, nothing significant.
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Darryl
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'78 Westy, Boston Bob built 2.0 L, FI, MSD 6A
| Meyer wrote: |
| Lastly, you just referred to US citizens as 'Americans'. Exactly what kind of Canadian are you? From what continent? |
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germansupplyscott
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2004
Posts: 7094
Location: toronto
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| Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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thanks for mentioning the bolts. i will include the right length ones from now on.
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SL |
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sharpmore
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2005
Posts: 81
Location: seattle wa
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| Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| i install both the front and rear heavy duty sway bars on my 71 high top bus i just got done with about 7800 miles since july, the first 3800 had just the front bar install and then installed the rear just before my trip to burningman, the rear made the biggest differnce, bus cut the corners like a sports car fully loaded and towing a 8' canvas tent trailer, didnt lose to much groud clearance with the rear bar install, but if you get the kit remember that the sway bar bushing bolts and sway bar to shock bolts are to short |
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dwill49965
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2005
Posts: 1396
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
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| Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| germansupplyscott wrote: |
| thanks for mentioning the bolts. i will include the right length ones from now on. |
Scott - the new bolts were the ones out of the Brazilian made package with new rubber mounts and the clamps. Both them and the stock VW bolts are 2 1/4" long. I would recommend at least 2 1/2" ones, but I think I'll go with 2 3/4" in length when I replace them. There would appear to be no issues with interfering with anything.
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Darryl
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'78 Westy, Boston Bob built 2.0 L, FI, MSD 6A
| Meyer wrote: |
| Lastly, you just referred to US citizens as 'Americans'. Exactly what kind of Canadian are you? From what continent? |
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HouseofGhia
Samba Member
Joined: February 17, 2005
Posts: 855
Location: Salem, or
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:00 am Post subject: |
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Scott......any chance of a front sway bar for a narrowed beam coming out in the future?
Mike
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House of Ghia specializing in Karmann Ghia parts, service, and restorations. www.house-of-ghia.com |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2958
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:59 am Post subject: Heavy-duty, front & rear anti-roll bars |
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| sharpmore wrote: |
| i install both the front and rear heavy duty sway bars on my 71 high top bus i just got done with about 7800 miles since july, the first 3800 had just the front bar install and then installed the rear just before my trip to burningman, the rear made the biggest differnce, bus cut the corners like a sports car fully loaded and towing a 8' canvas tent trailer, didnt lose to much groud clearance with the rear bar install, but if you get the kit remember that the sway bar bushing bolts and sway bar to shock bolts are to short |
Hello Sharpmore, plus Darryl in Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, et al.
I shall certainly be interested to learn more, about what is available re heavy-duty front & rear anti-roll bars (i.e. sway or anti-sway bars), for the 1968~79 VW Type 2, plus their effect.
I am aware that various bar diameters of various brands are (or at least were) available, including those from EMPI, Sway-A-Way and Whiteline. I read somewhere that 24 mm, adjustable front & rear anti-roll bars, were avilable from Whiteline, in Australia, but so far, have been unable to find any details.
As you might already know, torsional stiffness, is directly proportional to the fourth power of torsion-bar diameter, so one needs to be careful when selecting anti-roll bars, in order to balance the induced effects of oversteer and understeer contributions to the steering & suspension systems; not to mention the increase in overall suspension stiffness, under conditions of single-wheel bounce.
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet |
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tristessa
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Joined: April 07, 2004
Posts: 3992
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| dwill49965 wrote: |
| I would recommend at least 2 1/2" ones, but I think I'll go with 2 3/4" in length when I replace them. |
Make sure to use grade 10.9 bolts like the originals are/were, even if they're hard to find. Most hardware-store metric bolts are 8.8, but 10.9 and 12.9 is out there if you look hard enough. |
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dwill49965
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2005
Posts: 1396
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| tristessa wrote: |
| dwill49965 wrote: |
| I would recommend at least 2 1/2" ones, but I think I'll go with 2 3/4" in length when I replace them. |
Make sure to use grade 10.9 bolts like the originals are/were, even if they're hard to find. Most hardware-store metric bolts are 8.8, but 10.9 and 12.9 is out there if you look hard enough. |
Good idea, Tritessa. The Brazilian ones were marked 5.8 on the hex head. I guess thats why the nut chewed up the threads so easily when I tried to tighten them with the air impact driver. I didn't see a marking on the ones that were on my stock bar, but they may not have been original VW.
_________________
Darryl
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'78 Westy, Boston Bob built 2.0 L, FI, MSD 6A
| Meyer wrote: |
| Lastly, you just referred to US citizens as 'Americans'. Exactly what kind of Canadian are you? From what continent? |
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Hippopotabus
Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2004
Posts: 1600
Location: Miwuk Village, CA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:14 am Post subject: |
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Any opionions on the new sway? I'd love to see a trip report  on your experience with this sway bar on the freeway.
Everyone I talk to says once you do this upgrade the difference is unbelieveable.
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Celer, Silens, Letalis
www.2dreconbn.net |
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sharpmore
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2005
Posts: 81
Location: seattle wa
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| i have the scat 25mm 7/8 sway bars in both front and rear of my 71 adventure wagon bus. pulling a trailer thru several mountian passes and driving thru calf bakersfeild aera in high winds the sway bars are a night and day differance from stock front and no rear as is from the factory, i also noticed a huge improvement when i updated from just the heavy duty front with coil over rear shocks to heavy duty sways front and rear, this old high top can get me in trouble with how stable she is, avg 10mph fast the recomend thru corners and that was because of the load i had on board, cant wait till a normal short camping trip to get full effect |
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dwill49965
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2005
Posts: 1396
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:23 am Post subject: |
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| dwill49965 wrote: |
| germansupplyscott wrote: |
| thanks for mentioning the bolts. i will include the right length ones from now on. |
Scott - the new bolts were the ones out of the Brazilian made package with new rubber mounts and the clamps. Both them and the stock VW bolts are 2 1/4" long. I would recommend at least 2 1/2" ones, but I think I'll go with 2 3/4" in length when I replace them. There would appear to be no issues with interfering with anything. |
I replaced my bolts with M10 x 65, 10.9 hardness. My measurements above are off by 1/4" (I measured including the hex head thickness  ), so the bolts that were in there for the stock bar were 50mm (2 inches). You could probably get away with M10 x 60 as well. I thought it would be a struggle to replace them while lying on the garage floor, but they popped right out.
_________________
Darryl
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'78 Westy, Boston Bob built 2.0 L, FI, MSD 6A
| Meyer wrote: |
| Lastly, you just referred to US citizens as 'Americans'. Exactly what kind of Canadian are you? From what continent? |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2958
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:38 am Post subject: Heavy-duty, front & rear anti-sway bars |
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| sharpmore wrote: |
| i have the scat 25mm 7/8 sway bars in both front and rear of my 71 adventure wagon bus. pulling a trailer thru several mountian passes and driving thru calf bakersfeild aera in high winds the sway bars are a night and day differance from stock front and no rear as is from the factory, i also noticed a huge improvement when i updated from just the heavy duty front with coil over rear shocks to heavy duty sways front and rear, this old high top can get me in trouble with how stable she is, avg 10mph fast the recomend thru corners and that was because of the load i had on board, cant wait till a normal short camping trip to get full effect |
Hello Sharpmore.
Like you, I also have some "coil over rear shocks" on my 1973 VW Type 2; namely Monroe Load Levelers, which I bought by mail order from Demon Tweeks.
You said, "I have the Scat 25mm 7/8 sway bars in both front and rear of my 71 adventure wagon bus", which confuses me somewhat!
7/8 of an inch, corresponds to 22 mm, to the nearest whole millimetre. Exactly one inch, corresponds to approximately 25·399 mm.
Several years ago, I salvaged from a British specification, Ford Granada Mk. 1 sedan, a 25 mm diameter front anti-sway bar, whose width and other dimensions, seemed to match almost exactly, the requirements of my 1973 VW Type 2 rear suspension, for which I would need to fabricate some sort of bracket, to mount it to the rear torsion-bar tube.
However, I am concerned that unless this 25 mm diameter, rear-mounted anti-sway bar, were complemented by a suitably heavy-duty, front anti-sway bar, the nett effect might be excessive oversteer. My other concern, is that of excessively stiff suspension, with regard to single-wheel bounce.
Having driven a car, which at one time suddenly changed from understeer to oversteer (which I was able to rectify, using wheels of offset, differing by 15 mm), in the blink of an eye, when negotiating sharp bends under power, I am exceedingly wary of major suspension, steering alignment and wheel & tyre modifications!
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet |
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barryman
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2007
Posts: 200
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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Your pix really helped me with my own installation, I used your exact method and I had it installed in less than an hour. I may install longer bolts like you did...mine seem a bit short. Great job though, thanks for the killer post!
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caldwell54
Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2002
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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Where is the best place to get a new heavy duty front sway bar ? I need one for my 1978 Westy.
Thanks
Dean
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1978 Dakota Beige Westy Deluxe |
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barryman
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2007
Posts: 200
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| I got mine from bus-boys.com. $100 + shipping and that includes all you need to install it. Cheapest I found it anywhere else was $120 for all parts. You may want to get some longer bolts though. |
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gumbajv
Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2005
Posts: 217
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| I had both front & rear 22mm sway a-way bars on my '68 crewcab. While the front makes a difference, not sure about the back. With the bar mounted and one side connected at the lower shock mount, disconnect the other side and move it up & down. On mine, it moved 3"-4" + before I started to feel any resistance. That's at least how much the bus would need to lean before the bar started to do anything. Would be interested to know what other people are getting. It could be due to the length of the returns. I was going to shorten them up and mount them to the spring plates to take the slop out. |
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baumer99
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2008
Posts: 60
Location: Victoria, BC
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:05 am Post subject: |
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I would just like to add my personal experience and comment on dwill49965's next step.....
So, Koni's, heavy duty sway bar - oops! damn my underspec Michelin LTX M+S tires!!! They're next ....
I have done the front and rear sway bar upgrade with terrific results.
As for a next step, tires are definitely the next part of the upgrade. I was running 14" 195 Michelin LTX tires on stock rims, but the stiffer suspension really made it clear the tires were not up to the new task, the sidewalls are too tall. I ended up adding 15" Audi rims with the 205 65 Michelin Agilis tires and wow, the van rides like I never thought these vans could ride.
I was already running KYB shocks and now I am perfectly content with how well Vicki handles. High winds, passing semi's, just general body roll are all much more to my liking now. At one point I wanted to buy a "sports" car (I used to own two scirocco's) as a second car, now I no longer need to, she's all the sports I want or need.
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Aaron &
Vicki - 78 Riviera |
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Air_Cooled_Nut
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Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 3040
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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FYI: For safest fastener engagement, it's best to have three (3) threads minimum beyond the nut -- of course, any beyond that is a waste. A bolt end that is flush to the nut is NOT fully engaged and is NOT safe!
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Toby http://www.aircoolednut.com/
Did I mention that I'm an original Darksider?
'72 VW Squareback, 2007cc, GB 5-speed, rag top; '76 VW Riviera Penthouse Sundowner 2.0L; 2015 Audi S5 Cabby w/Stage II APR; '06 Ducati Sport Classic 1000; '14 Ducati Diavel Strada
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