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bulletproofing the cooling system
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:54 pm    Post subject: bulletproofing the cooling system Reply with quote

so i kinda had a 'come to Jesus' moment thinking about my project HERE and realized that as 'proof of concept' i didn't replace *every* part of the cooling system.

coolant pipes and all hoses were replaced and i had a good used radiator i plugged in just to get the van running.

seeing that i am doing a swap and want no problems (and the cooling system is dead empty now) i was thinking of stuff i should replace.

so...

i have no reason to believe the heater cores are in any need of replacement but what isn't sitting well with me is the radiator and the heater valves.

in 2021, what brand radiator is a safe bet? vendors? same with the heater valves. i think i am going to upgrade the rear one...no doubt there. the front is run of the mill rabbit which i have had no real issues with ever (been running rabbits 20+ years now)

that said, the rear heater valve from van cafť looks nice, so no brainer there. i know someone sells a over engineered front one....really not interested in it (not from a price point, just seems to be overkill)

what i'd like is a front heater valve that works like the OE and doesn't piss off the control cable.

so i guess the real question is, what radiator is top notch and the same for the front heater valve. unless the masses say so, i think i will leave the cores alone.

the other thing i am wondering is what is the forum at large using for front heater core hoses? i suppose 5/8 could be used, but these are molded and seem to be scarce here stateside p/n 251265053C and 251265054A respectively and have been out of stock here in the US since i started this project. i really don't like the idea of 37 year old hoses
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:23 am    Post subject: Re: bulletproofing the cooling system Reply with quote

Iíve got a hundred feet of Gates 5/8 I keep for P80 heater core bypasses and fixes when the owners are too cheap to buy the bulkhead connector.

Iím having it tested on Vanagon right now.... Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:03 am    Post subject: Re: bulletproofing the cooling system Reply with quote

It's a funny thing, those twisty front heater hoses never gave/give me much pause.

They live a charmed life out of the elements and far from the engines heat.

A good part of the year they sit cold unused, un-warmed........ ignored really.

They weren't even on my short list of items to replace. Every other rubber hose is but those aren't. A bit short sighted?
Perhaps....... time will tell.

The rear heater for me is gone and I've no plans to reinstall one. That being said, this will be a year around runner, I may change my mind come about this time next year!

The front heater valve you mention is a 10c product and has a built in bleeder to the radiator. (Edit: Shown Below)
Like you, this holds no interest for me, just more bits to fail.
That clear plastic tube gives me concern, though possibly unfounded. Just adding yet more connections in an already connection over dosed cooling system.

I have used and will use the Ford heater valve modification. I already have it to install.
I will put this one in the cab instead of under by the spare tire.

Do install the Jeep blower fan resistor also.

There was a recent thread about radiator brands, I'll see if I can locate it.

Dave
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:21 am    Post subject: Re: bulletproofing the cooling system Reply with quote

This one is intriguing...

https://intrepidoverland.com/shop/t3-vanagon-front-heater-valve/

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9342356#9342356

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:00 am    Post subject: Re: bulletproofing the cooling system Reply with quote

For a buck+ I would go with Chrisí all the way

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:25 am    Post subject: Re: bulletproofing the cooling system Reply with quote

If you just want a reliable valve in a location that you can service if it ever should need it you can add a Ford or other valve here. Used the stock cable and it has worked fine for me for years.

Just pull the cable to the interior and it is easily routed to the floor area where the heater hoses enter the cab. I did zip tie the end of the cable to the valve since I did not want to modify the stock bends in case I decided to go back to the original valve location. I left the stock valve open in place.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:44 am    Post subject: Re: bulletproofing the cooling system Reply with quote

Ford Valve .....

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6335569#6335569

Dave
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:05 am    Post subject: Re: bulletproofing the cooling system Reply with quote

Here's that recent radiator thread:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=732194
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:26 am    Post subject: Re: bulletproofing the cooling system Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:


Do install the Jeep blower fan resistor also.

Dave


If a person was to be getting into the front blower area to the extent where changing out to a Jeep resistor was 'doable' I would completely reconsider the options at hand in the modern epoch.

Resistors waste power.

I remember member ItalJohn did a youtube on it. I can't put my finger on it just now, but here is yet another youtube of how/why to do the PWM for the front blower.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GzJ8N1Rqp8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S24Hty4_bs

SyncroJael did a topic on doing PWM for the upper rear blower(s)

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=738697
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:34 am    Post subject: Re: bulletproofing the cooling system Reply with quote

My 82 diesel had the heater valve inside the cab. I guess it was too easy to access, so the engineers figured out the most difficult place to access the valve in later models.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:54 am    Post subject: Re: bulletproofing the cooling system Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
My 82 diesel had the heater valve inside the cab. I guess it was too easy to access, so the engineers figured out the most difficult place to access the valve in later models.


Agreed. I can not think of why they could not put the valve in the location I showed. You could put a stock VW valve right there....
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:48 am    Post subject: Re: bulletproofing the cooling system Reply with quote

good input, thanks

djkeev~ yea, the front heater core hoses that are available (after much digging) are made in Taiwan. no thank you...

i may have found a workaround for those hoses. i ordered a ton of different options from Gates. they have a whole bunch of molded 5/8 hoses so i am going to see what i come up with.

no need to post any p/n yet as i'm not sure what will work, but will keep this updated or post another thread.

i literally have totes upon totes of hoses from cars i parted out. call me a swamp yankee but saving that stuff is great for conversions/custom installs so you can cut up stuff and not feel bad, then match up a hose a your local FLAPS.

anyway...my concern for the front hoses is real....upon doing a 1.8T swap (thank God it was my personal car) i re-used a good looking hose from my bin-o-shit and after about 3k miles, it failed in an epic way on a hot summer day when i was grabbing 2nd gear at 5k and 22lbs of boost. the side of the hose ripped like a zipper was there.

that was a OE vw hose dated 10/88 and was pulled from a low mileage example. my concern for the radiator is it came in a plie of parts when i went shopping at a friends place. it's original and although it seems ok i'd rather not push my luck.

how is the ford valve? i'm not opposed to using it. in the mk1 rabbit world there is a porsche valve that is very similar to the one used on our vans that is still available from por$che so i will dig into that as well
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gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:23 pm    Post subject: Re: bulletproofing the cooling system Reply with quote

so, my trial hoses came in for the front heater core. seem very promising and made by Gates. advertised as kink resistant and just fooling with them seem like they will work just fine. i will post the # when i can confirm they will work.

feel much better about it and honestly feel better NOT to use the taiwan ones available

thinking the auto bleed valve i don't see why you couldn't use a stock valve (or a facsimile thereof) and just used this

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_6601595?cid=pai...D_BwE&

of course you'd need the banjo arrangement but those can be had cheap enough.

anyway, not liking my choices for radiators at the moment Confused
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gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history


Last edited by [email protected] on Fri Feb 12, 2021 9:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:01 pm    Post subject: Re: bulletproofing the cooling system Reply with quote

I disagree. If you get it bled and you run for years without touching it, I can see why you'd think it's a waste.

However, as someone who is constantly pulling things apart and subsequently constantly having to bleed the system, this thing is a blessing. I can't tell you how many times I have had to bleed air out of the top of the radiator. It might work well enough to not overheat and to run fine because the amount of coolant and the size of radiator is massive for this little engine, but it is not what I consider "self bleeding". Air gets trapped at the radiator.

The ability to confirm the fluid level at the front of the van where it actually matters? Icing on the cake.

I'm not saying don't home brew the set up with napa/mcmaster carr parts or what not. That's neither here nor there imo. I'm saying the set up is an improvement.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:13 pm    Post subject: Re: bulletproofing the cooling system Reply with quote

I didn't install my fancy bleed and valve kit yet. In fact, I don't have much trouble bleeding. I have a nice area in my "driveway" siding that I back up on, and it puts the pressure tank at least 3 inches above the bleed on the radiator.

I see the advantage, of course, with it bleeding on the fly. I have been mulling it over for a while, but I see it more practical for transplants that are HARD to bleed. I offered to put in in my daughter's EJ22 powered '86, if she gets going on the final bits this Spring. I am looking forward to seeing how the EJ22 powers her tintop.

Having looked over the kit though, it seems like a no brainer. If I were in actual need of a new valve, I certainly would put it in. I have yet to check if the banjo will fit the replacement radiator I also have sitting on the shelf.

Oh the joys of the non-heated garage...
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:40 pm    Post subject: Re: bulletproofing the cooling system Reply with quote

The heater core getting airblocked is not going to overheat my motor, unlike the radiator.

bobbyblack wrote:
Oh the joys of the non-heated garage...


How big is your garage? Is 12k BTUs enough? $725 and you can install it yourself. The lines come precharged. Generally speaking, mini splits work down to about 20F.
https://www.amazon.com/Classic-America-Ductless-In...NrPXRydWU=

I am running a 24k DIY MRCOOL in my garage. It looks like it's no longer offered, only 12k, 18k, and 36k. They are a bit pricier, with their 12k @ $1400 https://www.amazon.com/MrCool-Ductless-Split-Syste...3&th=1
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:42 pm    Post subject: Re: bulletproofing the cooling system Reply with quote

4Gears4Tires wrote:
bobbyblack wrote:
Oh the joys of the non-heated garage...


How big is your garage? Is 12k BTUs enough? $725 and you can install it yourself. The lines come precharged. Generally speaking, mini splits work down to about 20F.
https://www.amazon.com/Classic-America-Ductless-In...NrPXRydWU=

I am running a 24k DIY MRCOOL in my garage. It looks like it's no longer offered, only 12k, 18k, and 36k. They are a big pricier, with their 12k https://www.amazon.com/MrCool-Ductless-Split-Syste...3&th=1


I've installed many Mr Cool units, nothing but praise and they work great!
Affordable, easy and they actually work!

Dave
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:02 pm    Post subject: Re: bulletproofing the cooling system Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:

how is the ford valve? i'm not opposed to using it.


it works fine. as i recall theres two numbers that work opposite eachother so just watch which one you order.

i ended up with that as i was wrapping up our tdi swap just before the intrepid valves were available
if i were to do it again or had the system empty for some reason, id definitely go with the intrepid valve as the self bleeding is nice. id probably still move it indoors though
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 10:00 pm    Post subject: Re: bulletproofing the cooling system Reply with quote

my hang up with the current self bleed deal is that clear tubing. pounding the internetz it doesn't have a very high temp rating or psi rating. most are good for 5psi @ 70*

granted, you can get plain old coolant hose in 1/4" but it's not clear.

i'm not bagging on the inventor, in fact i think it's a great idea. i'm just not a fan of adding a potential failure point with the clear tubing not rated at a minimum of 20psi @220*
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gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:15 am    Post subject: Re: bulletproofing the cooling system Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
my hang up with the current self bleed deal is that clear tubing. pounding the internetz it doesn't have a very high temp rating or psi rating. most are good for 5psi @ 70*

granted, you can get plain old coolant hose in 1/4" but it's not clear.

i'm not bagging on the inventor, in fact i think it's a great idea. i'm just not a fan of adding a potential failure point with the clear tubing not rated at a minimum of 20psi @220*


Really, why do you need it to be clear?
When are you going to look at it?
No other coolant bleed hose in the system is clear.

Dave
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