syncro or 2wd

[diesel joker]

I have two diesel german high top westfalia campers and can not decide which one to keep.
The first is a 1987 that I have been driving for the last year and currantly has 127,000 km.
The second is a 1989 syncro that I just imported the van has 289,000 km but the entire driveline was replaced by VW in germany with in the last 50,000 km at a cost of 50,000 euro.
Both have very little seem rust but the syncro has a little more.

I have had 5 westfalias but never had a syncro if anyone has any thoughts regarding the syncro vs 2wd I would love to hear them.

Derek

[Terry Kay]

If you have a bunch of snow, Mud, and your D&B report is good, and you have a bunch of idle cash--keep the Syncro.

If you enjoy the Vanagon experience the 2wd is less expensive to own.

The Syncro will bring more centavo's when you go to unload--

Six of one,half a dozen of the other--

It's all personal preference.

Tough call to ask other folks to make this kinda decision for you.
_________________
T.K.

[diesel joker]

Thanks for your input. I am not looking for others to make this decision for me, just looking for other vanagon owners thoughts.


Derek

[0to60in6min]

Have you drive and work out the Syncro long enough to have a good feel of it?

With my '85 Westy I only got stuck once in the sand in Baja California near Cabo San Lucas... I got help right away and they pulled me out of the sand... my ego didn't get hurt at all because they know it's a 2 wheel drive...

since then I'm thinking about a Syncro (my heart).. but my head say NO... because all the high repair cost, and I'm not good for repair myself as other members of this forum....

your decision should be based on your skills to repair and most importantly how you will enjoy the Synchro.... otherwise simple folks as myself enjoy a 2 WD vanagon with less hassle to worry....

cheer...

dan

[syncrotex]

Maybe it depends on where you like to camp. I like camping in the sticks listening to crickets instead of generators and boom boxes at the camp ground.The syncro works well for this, especially if it happens to rain. If you go off the beaten path go with the syncro.They are amazing off road and handle well on road. Worth every penny

[diesel joker]

I have not driven the syncro much as it has not been inspected yet. I am a heavy duty mechanic and done all the repairs on my last vans myself but I am not ready for a high repair cost in parts. Are the syncros realy as bad as people say?

Honestly I am leaning to the syncro but the realiability is very important to me. My 87 has been absolutly trouble free so I was hoping this van would be the same.

Thanks for the reply.

Derek

[Wildthings]

As a guess I would say that a synchro will cost you about 4 cents a mile more than a regular vanagon. Every 200,000 miles you will likely see this kind of price difference.

+$1000 for transmission rebuild
+$300-$1200 for driveline work
+$500 for engine parts like exhaust and coolant hoses
+$500 for front CV joints and boots
+$800 for front differential work
+$300 for an extra set of tires

Not to bad really unless you are looking to have to pay it all at once.

[Terry Kay]

<<+$1000 for transmission rebuild
+$300-$1200 for driveline work
+$500 for engine parts like exhaust and coolant hoses
+$500 for front CV joints and boots
+$800 for front differential work
+$300 for an extra set of tires>>


Change a couple of figure's here---it's about $3800.00 for a trans rebuild, and the exhaust & cooling sysyem repairs will be a bunch more--like double.

I don't see any prices of the viscous coupler if that fails---

How long does it take to replace a starter in a Syncro--?
2 days?
This part of the elite bonus plan--a 2 day starter replacement program.
Beat me, whip me.
_________________
T.K.

[Pengineer1]

I didn't see the worth of a Syncro until I drove one. I've always been a VW camper guy, and I liked the increased interior space of the newer campers (Vanagons)...but when I drove a 2wd camper I really didn't like how heavy it felt, especially in the front end. Maybe the one I drove had tired springs, I don't know, but when I finally went and test drove the Syncro Westy that I'd seen in the paper, it really felt like an entirely different vehicle. The front end felt firm and well suspended, not like it would dive and bottom going through every dip in the road.

I've often wondered over the years if I ever found the repair bills too high if I could let the expensive 4wd components fail and just keep her running as a 2wd??

Have you guys ever heard of others do this?

I just like the way this Syncro chassis handles, especially on dirt roads. I don't have to have the 4 wheel drive, but I like the taller ground clearance and suspension. It does not feel heavy, even though I realize it is much heavier than a 2wd camper...

Bill in CO
_________________
'61 Sub Hatch Flip-Seat Camper - sold, sigh!
87 Westy Syncro turbo!

[Chris_L]

Terry,
Is it really 2 days for a starter change? I am on the hairy edge of plunking down cash for an 86 syncro, and this is the sort of thing I would like to know about! What other operations are exceptionally awkward?
Thanks,
Chris

[r39o]

So he has all new 50K km mechanicals. So he has got over 200K kms left to go. No worries. Don't abuse and you are cool.

Question is, do you really need the 4wd?

They don't break as often as all the nay sayers say. A few mods (not cheap) help extend the service life of certain parts. But, since you have so,so much new, you are in no rush.

But, the syncro is heavier. Gets worse milage. Strains the little engine more. Things to consider. But, again, the vans live a good life for 10 to 20 years, so you got plenty of time to mess around.

Now, I will state this yet one more time: "These vans are not for people on budgets."

That stated, once fixed, as yours "seems" to be, you should not worry anymore than anybody with a low milage used one.

Check your receipts and see what was done. Then plan on the things not done.

They are all pretty OK. Not to worry.

Still, as queried above: Do you NEED 4wd? That will decide for you.

Have fun!
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!

1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....

Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently)

[syncrotex]

I replaced my syncro starter in 3 hrs, cost 125.00. I did my right front wheel bearing in 4hrs, cost 45.00(ebay bearing nos). Both u-joints took 4 hrs, cost 75.00 (napa). Syncros are still a volkswagen. They are easy to work on and parts aren't that bad if you shop around. Why is it that all the non syncro owners do all the syncro bashing. Sour grapes? I have yet to see a post that says " I just bought a syncro and it sucks, I think I'll go back to 2wd". No way. Everybody that has one loves it and wonders how they ever got along without it.

[Wildthings]

[nomaad]

I shipped my 86 syncro weekender to the mountains ofCosta Rica when we made the move. I would have driven, but my wife was 8 months into her first pregnancy. Nobody wants to have a baby in Guatemala!!!

I do a majority of driving on some of the worst roads in the world... this place is famous for it. Lots of mud and washed out bridges in the rainy season and not much better in the dry season. Its daily extreme driving at its best... and worst.

Recently, the syncro blew and we had to put in a temporary 2WD transmission. The difference between the two is staggering. While the van gets me most places I want to go, the overall performance in the conditions I find myself in is lacking. I have a friend on the mountain with a vanagon 2wd turbo deisel conversion with an afteremarket limited slip differencial that does a lot better than mine.

The bottom line: as soon as I have the $2000 for a replacement syncro transmission and the $1500 or so to ship it here and clear it through customs I'll do it. No dount in my mind.

Now, of course I fall into the category of thos who NEED the AWD... I think that if I had a 2wd in the USA with the roads they have there... Nah, I would still want my syncro. Its expensive to maintain (especially here), but when its at its best it is a pleasurable machine to drive in the absolute worst conditions.

[lstrvr]

I have to disagree as well with the starter change reference. I have done mine outside in the rain in 3 hours. Not a hard job at all. The only initial challenge is removing the diff lock, which once you figure it out takes no longer than 15 min.

The other thing to remember is the re-sale value for a syncro may make up for the additional costs in parts over the 2wd if you haven't overpaid initially for the truck.

[levi]

[0to60in6min]

The truth is anyone can bash about anything they like... ..it became a favorite pastime...

I remember back in the '70s .... BMW motorcycles and Harley Davidson were THE MACHINE to get... then came the Japanese "rice rockets"... aahhhhh... they bashed BMW and Harley to the point that Harley went bankrupt and BMW was thinking about closing the motorcyle division... and now in 2006, how are the BMW and Harley are doing?... pretty good..hé..? ... as we are now, have you guys came across bashing match between PC computer versus Mac computer yet..?

now back to the Syncro, I love to have one for my trade as a photographer... but strange enough that my mechanic was the one who talked to me not getting one... and beside there is the purchase price of a Syncro... pretty stiff .. no..?

so... keep your VW going..I keep mine going... slow..yeah.. so what..?

happy hollidays

[Dogpilot]

You can bash any car out there. Personally, I hate Landcruisers. The mechanical transmissions on those blow thrid gears in low range like a streetwalker in Detroit. The UN kept giving them to me, and the trannies kept going in the sand. There, a bash.

I like my Syncro. It is not any harder to work on than any other Vanagon. I have not had any of the Syncro specific parts give me any trouble, just the usual Vanagon stuff. Most of those problems are pretty common to anything 20 years and 160K old. Newer cars give me bigger fits. I love chasing down obscure OBD II codes, especially in the evaporative emissions side.

When one talks prices, lets see, hotwire mass airflow meter on newer cars, Bosch for example $750, Idle stepper motor, Bosch $250, Throttle postion sensor, Bosch $125. Cam Position sensor, Bosch $189. Windshield Toyota, $1200, Transmission BMW 528 $3200 exchange. Battery pack Hybrid Toyota $7,500 (6 week delivery). Suspension compressor Land Rover $900. So what is all the wig out on Syncro part prices?

The Syncro is a car, like any others. If you blow an expensive part, well it is what died. Perhaps some failed to read the gentleman's post. VW replaced all the driveline out about 50,000 KM ago. So basically his Syncro specific stuff is almost virgin. The Syncro will bring more money, and as collectables go, it will always be unusual, especially a high top. So it should bring high dollars. I would be more concerned about the rust than the mechanicals. I can do any of the bolt twisting, but bodywork gives me fits, and my attempts at bodywork looks like sh*t. So it is something I farm out.
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Geology with a Syncro rocks!
86 Syncro Westy AKA "The Bughunter"
98 Disco I
08 Range Rover SC
08 VW Rabbit S
1951 O-1G

[overrestored]

I had a great late syncro westy and it was indeed a great off road vehicle. On road it was heavy feeling and I didn't like the feeling of so many moving parts underneath me. I decided I really don't off road enough to need a syncro. So I sold the 4WD and bought a 2WD. They are different vans for different needs. Now I have a 1991 Doka 2wd and love it... It has Vreidstein Transport Snow tires all around and works pretty good offroad but not like a Syncro... but it is a lighter faster van on the road.

I suppose you should calculate how much of your driving is offroad or snow where you will need 4wd and then consider how much of your driving is highway or city... and come to a conclusion about your own habits and needs.

Eric