Shortened Pans?

[HeidelbergJohn4.0]

Ok, so after searching without any success at all, I have a question?

Has anyone ever produced either metal or fiberglass pans ALREADY shortened the 14 1/2" for a standard buggy? After thousands of these things being built over the last 40 odd years or so, someone has to have done this. If not, why?????
Nothing sucks worse than having to cut brand new pans in half and do all the welding on an old buggy. Even building a buggy from a good chassis, that is the worst part.

Berrien won't even consider selling one of their fiberglass pans without the chassis, and the fiberglass pans Glass action sells are pretty nice, but they are full length. Glassing in a set of pans to a glass body would be sweet and very strong. Making the buggy body with the floors already in place to attach to the flange on the tunnel should be stronger than the typical set up.
_________________
71 LWB Manx style dunebuggy
71 Beetle
71 Volksrod
Machette Speedster
2012 Passat TDI SE (sadly sitting in a buyback parking lot somewhere waiting for it's heart to be ripped out.)

[Lo Cash John]

I've thought of producing some, but the problem is not ever one can read a measuring tape. In other words, not all "standard" buggies are 14.5 inches shorter. Some are 14.25 some are 14.75 inches shorter. Some are an even 14. With that in mind, it makes pre-made and easy to install pans pretty hard to do.

John H
_________________
www.LoCashRacing.org
Lo' Cash Racing Team on Facebook
More brains than bucks...Believe it or not!!

My boss told me I need to work on my mutli-tasking. So now when I use the bathroom at work I surf The Samba on my iPhone.

[Elwood]

I can do it. I am just so damn busy all the time.
Just let me get some tracings and all.
Do you think it would be an issue if all the grooves and such didn't look like stock pans but maybe had a totally different look.

I can get a little play out of it so if someone where to have one thats a little off they gotta drill their own holes anyway.

Locash John see you at the Beaches show.

[HeidelbergJohn4.0]

Could you make the flange across the front where it would attach to the front cross member extra wide to be trimmed between say a pan shortened 14.25 and 14.75". The flange in the angled portion of the pan could be a little wider to cver variations in positioning. If your chassis pan was cut short, the pan would be long enough. If it were only shortened say 14.25, just trim the new pan across the front. Everyone replaces pans a little differently at the front and rear to begin with and I would assume the pans would not have pre drilled bolt holes. Maybe molded impressions, but of the buggys I've seen have no bolt holes in the body, so they can be drilled anywhere. They don't have to match up to a heater channel. I wish I could get my hands on someone's Berrien floor
_________________
71 LWB Manx style dunebuggy
71 Beetle
71 Volksrod
Machette Speedster
2012 Passat TDI SE (sadly sitting in a buyback parking lot somewhere waiting for it's heart to be ripped out.)

[MURZI]

Doesn't that guy TUNA sell them?
_________________
62 vert
2276
Tim’s welded heads
45 Dells
A1 sidewinder
Fk44 cam

[Dunebubby]

Yellermanx can tell you where to get a "fiber-floor",like Berriens.I think ,since they rely on the tube frame underneath them,that it would need a LOT of strenghtening to be used in a"stand alone" application.

[Elwood]

What I will need is acess to a shortened pan. The one I have is a total butcher job so I can take measurement of my full length, but I still need to replicate the angle of the tunnels upsweep and all.

Don't expect this soon, I gotta alot to too and this will just have to be added to the list.

[Yellermanx]

I believe Fisher Buggies will sell the pan separately. Also someone advertises them in the Samba classifieds from time to time.

[HeidelbergJohn4.0]

No hurry, This started honestly as more of a gripe to be honest, But i think there would be a small market for this, especially considering all of the old buggies sitting around with plywood, fiberglass, bath tub caulk and street signs for floorboards around I actually looked a MiniT yesterday for sale on the road near me. as soon as i saw red indoor outdoor glued into the floor I got underneath, sure enough, it needs complete pans. Someone actually put the battery at the passenger's feet, so it's rusted in the normal battery location AND the footwell. The drivers side looked like swiss cheese. I think there's more glue than metal.



I have another good intact chassis with a new frame head and I also have fresh pans to cut, but I also know where there are a few chassis around that were already cut long ago for next to nothing, if not free and in decent shape which I'd rather use. I'm also just a lazy ass and it's a pain in the rump to get it over to my brother's place to work on it, do all the cutting and use the mig. Same reason my voldsrod hasn't gotten anywhere to speak of I can work with glass anywhere. I'm actually gonna patch a small ding in the hull of my Hobie 16 in the back yard when I get home today.

I have 1.25"x2" steel that I run inside of the channels in the floorpans and thru-bolt for extra strength, so steel or glass, that would be taken care of strength wise, but glassing the floors into the body would really stiffen up the whole thing, much like the chines of a boat hull where all the strength is.

I'll check with Fisher Buggies on the pan. Fixing rust repeatedly isn't my idea of fun with a buggy.
_________________
71 LWB Manx style dunebuggy
71 Beetle
71 Volksrod
Machette Speedster
2012 Passat TDI SE (sadly sitting in a buyback parking lot somewhere waiting for it's heart to be ripped out.)

[bpritchert87]

when i bought my buggy it was also very rusty and looked almost like swiss cheese. so what i did what got new full length pans cut them to where i needed and when i cut out the old pans i left about a 1" tab so the new pan would fit correctly.... then after hours of use of a hammer to get them where they should be i finally mig welded them to the pan... it turned out good specailly for being my first time replacing them.... and pratically welding..... lol but now that i have them replaced i feel great to know that they will last a long time.... i also undercoated it with about a 1/4" of the undercoating.... being a street buggy that is driven only in the summer it will last me for a long long time..... but either way good luck...........
bpritchert87

[mach4]

I don't know if it would be worth it, but I suppose it would be theoretically possible to just use the old floorpans as a form and lay up fiberblass/epoxy over the top of them.

If I were to attempt this I would wire brush the surface down to bare, clean metal and then trowell in flox or dry microballoons into all the indentation in the floorboards to provide a smooth surface just to make the layups easier and also to provide a little stiffening. Then layup 6-8 layers of 6-10 oz fiberglass (or maybe substitute some fiberglass matting for a couple of layers) If carbon fiber weren't so expensive, substituting a layer or two of this stuff would make a really strong structure.

I'd then probably then go ahead and prep the bottom and give it a coat of RustBullet and finish with some Herculiner.

I actually used this strategy on a mildly rusted section of the body of a Baja. The rear firewall and the horizontal section above the transmission were rusted through in a few areas. Still structurally sound, but needed a little reinforcing. The only thing I did differently from what I described above, was laydown Rust Bullet first (both sides), then the fiberglass/epoxy on the inside. RustBullet on the bottom plus Herculiner, plus RustBullet and fiberglass then finish paint on the top, pretty well seals the metal and prevents any further possibility of rust.

When I did my floorboards I did add three layers of fiberglass/epoxy in the battery area, to provide some additional protection.

As easy as it is to replace the floorboards (done it three times) I would probably recommend just doing it right the first time.

[HeidelbergJohn4.0]

You just about nailed my entire point. Three times, a lot of work and effort, then a lot of work again. Even if you have the body off and a relatively strong tunnel, youstill have to cut the pans, weld them back together, then to the tunnel, we've all done it. Sheet metal and square tube makes a sense, but the DMV nazi's around here also give you hell about it at title time. They know what a VW chassis looks like. New properly sized pans for a buggy keep that illusion intact. I've done floorpans both on a bare chassis and with the bug body intact, and it's a pain in the arse! It's not a heater channel type job, but I'm never gonna give up my day job because I love doing this so much. No more major cutting to "Make it work". Zip zip, done. steel would be good, but honestly not all of us actually have a mig welder

The entire body is fiberglass, why not the floors as well. Ever look at a modern Corvette body. Take a VW, install a V8 and reverse it. It just hangs over the central chassis. I think new fiberglass short pans would get a lot more buggys back on the road and keep them there.

I'm a big fan of "One and Done."

I'm also gonna masterseries and Line X the whole thing top and bottom when i finally get them done.
_________________
71 LWB Manx style dunebuggy
71 Beetle
71 Volksrod
Machette Speedster
2012 Passat TDI SE (sadly sitting in a buyback parking lot somewhere waiting for it's heart to be ripped out.)

[mach4]

Just a couple of clarifications -

When I indicated that I had "replaced the pans three times", this is on three different vehicles, not three times on the same vehicle.

I was suggesting that replacing the pans with new steel ones was "doing it right". If properly treated, one change should last a lifetime. The newer technology batteries don't leak, nearly to the extent the old ones did and it is even possible to relocate them on a buggy.

That having been said, it is certainly possible to create a body with integral floor pans. Bruce's original Manx was a monocoque construction. It was only later when he went into production that he redesigned a body that bolted to the original floor pan.

In my scenario above, I was not suggesting glassing the body to the floor. That would ostensibely make it impossible to remove the body. I was suggesting a bybrid metal/fiberglass/epoxy sandwich created by glassing over prepared pans used as a former or substrate. This would be strong, but still use the floor pans to bolt to the body.

I wonder if anyone has actually attempted this?

Here's a picture of the rear that I glassed on my Baja

[Elwood]

The only issue I see with doing the FG pans is that you would need a sturcy lip to attach them to. Probaly have to weld a stirp of steel along the sides of the tunnel 'cus the 1/4 lip isn't gonna hold the FG pans up.

I am not talking about Glassing over a steel floor such as Mach4 suggested but entirely new floors made specifically for a buggy.

These would not be a match for the the stock ones with the stamped groove in the stock location but there would be grooves in a different way. Better for production and drainage if needed this way. I got an idea off of this not sure where I'll go with it if at all.


HeidelbergJohn4.0, Know who I am yet ?

[HeidelbergJohn4.0]

Yeah actually I did a while ago

We're gonna finally get around to weldin up my stretched chassis for the Vrod This weekend. Good easter project for saturday afternoon.

Does anyone know anyone that has used the glass action fiberglass pans in a bug? Granted you have the heater channels providing all the strength there, but they have been around a while, so I assume they work. I guess I just have more confidence in fiberglass than some with all the time I've spent in boats. You wouldn't believe the pounding a fiberglass boat can take.
_________________
71 LWB Manx style dunebuggy
71 Beetle
71 Volksrod
Machette Speedster
2012 Passat TDI SE (sadly sitting in a buyback parking lot somewhere waiting for it's heart to be ripped out.)

[UncleBob]