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ccpalmer
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2006
Posts: 3851
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
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 Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:06 am Post subject: '71 Westy shifting problems |
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Hello -
I just started to have some shifting problems in my '71. Last weekend I had trouble getting in to first gear a few times. It did go into gear after a few tries. Now today I had trouble again. A few times I couldn't get it into first or second and had to turn off the engine to get it in gear. As I drove home I also got some grinding when I tried shifting into 3rd and 4th gears. Reverse worked most of the time but one time it made a grinding noise there too.
I have had this Bus 8 years. When I first got it I had a tiny bit of trouble getting into first on cold mornings but that seemed to go away until a few days ago.
I know nothing about transmissions. I assume this problem isn't from my clutch disc? My clutch has 30,000 miles on it. I did try tightening my clutch cable a bit but that didn't help. New transmission fluid as of two years ago.
Thanks for any advice -
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12846
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:24 am Post subject: |
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We don't tighten the clutch cable wingnut as the clutch wears. We loosen it.
Disclaimer, this is if your, disk & pressure plate, throw out bearing, operating shaft & lever, clutch cable, Bowden tube, clutch cable lever, clutch pedal lever, clutch pedal lever support and bushings, are good.
Link
Link
Does it shift ok with the engine off?
E-brake on wheels chocked.
Get under the bus and inspect these parts.
Shifter parts.
Good Luck
Tcash |
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ccpalmer
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2006
Posts: 3851
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| Tcash wrote: |
| We don't tighten the clutch cable wingnut as the clutch wears. We loosen it. |
I just thought my clutch might not be fully disengaging so I tried tightening it.
| Tcash wrote: |
| Does it shift ok with the engine off? |
It does as I parked it now, but it also will go into any gear while running now.
| Tcash wrote: |
E-brake on wheels chocked. Get under the bus and inspect these parts.
Shifter parts.
Good Luck
Tcash |
I replaced my cage bushing and front bushing a few years ago.
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Tcash
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Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12846
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| ccpalmer wrote: |
I replaced my cage bushing and front bushing a few years ago. |
It would be worth a few minutes to take a look. Just to rule them out.
Might try changing the Transaxle Gear Oil?
Good luck
Tcash |
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ccpalmer
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2006
Posts: 3851
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| Tcash wrote: |
| ccpalmer wrote: |
I replaced my cage bushing and front bushing a few years ago. |
It would be worth a few minutes to take a look. Just to rule them out.
Might try changing the Transaxle Gear Oil?
Good luck
Tcash |
Everything looks good on a visual check, trans oil is at the proper level too...
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Tcash
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Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12846
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| ccpalmer wrote: |
| Tcash wrote: |
| ccpalmer wrote: |
I replaced my cage bushing and front bushing a few years ago. |
It would be worth a few minutes to take a look. Just to rule them out.
Might try changing the Transaxle Gear Oil?
Good luck
Tcash |
Everything looks good on a visual check, trans oil is at the proper level too... |
When was the last time it was changed? |
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OLD VW NUT
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Joined: February 23, 2011
Posts: 2776
Location: High Desert of Washington 98823
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:48 am Post subject: |
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Sounds like its time for a serious clutch adjustment. Over time the clutch disc wears down and as it does the clutch pedal needs to travel just a little bit more to disengage the clutch disc. At some point there is no more travel left to disengage the clutch and you need to get under the vehicle and adjust the clutch arm until you get ~1" of free play on the clutch pedal. Once you have that if everything else is in good shape you should be able to engage all gears running or not. Continuing to drive it with a mis-adjusted clutch will take a toll on the transmission.
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
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Location: West Coast, USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| OLD VW NUT wrote: |
| Once you have [the clutch adjusted,] if everything else is in good shape you should be able to engage all gears running or not. |
Sure, but the clutch adjustment is only part of the equation for the clutch to fully release. The other parts require the input shaft to spin freely in the pilot bearing, and the clutch disc also has to slide back and forth on the input shaft splines perfectly. The first one is a problem that shows up every so often on here, and is only curable with new parts. The second one probably never happens without taking the engine out and bashing the splines or getting dirt in the works.
But a bad pilot bearing CAN (not always) show up as shifting fine when the gear oil is COLD, then proceed to get worse as the gear oil warms. This is because the cold gear oil will "grab" the input shaft and slow it down enough to allow a shift, but the warm oil can allow the bum pilot bearing to "grab" the input shaft and fake a "clutch not releasing" symptom.
Robbie
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ccpalmer
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2006
Posts: 3851
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Tcash wrote: |
| ccpalmer wrote: |
| Tcash wrote: |
| ccpalmer wrote: |
I replaced my cage bushing and front bushing a few years ago. |
It would be worth a few minutes to take a look. Just to rule them out.
Might try changing the Transaxle Gear Oil?
Good luck
Tcash |
Everything looks good on a visual check, trans oil is at the proper level too... |
When was the last time it was changed? |
I wrote earlier that it was changed two years ago..
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ccpalmer
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Joined: September 17, 2006
Posts: 3851
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| asiab3 wrote: |
But a bad pilot bearing CAN (not always) show up as shifting fine when the gear oil is COLD, then proceed to get worse as the gear oil warms. This is because the cold gear oil will "grab" the input shaft and slow it down enough to allow a shift, but the warm oil can allow the bum pilot bearing to "grab" the input shaft and fake a "clutch not releasing" symptom.
Robbie |
I am having the issue cold and warm
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ccpalmer
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Posts: 3851
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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I just went and tried going into gears again while sitting. With the engine on I at first could go into all gears easily then after a few tries 1st and 2nd got harder to get into...
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Silverboot
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Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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having a similar issue as well, took it into the shop, and they said that it was most likely the needle bearing not allowing the clutch to fully engage (or disengage, so that could be a possibility.
If mine is in gear with the clutch to the floor, if i take my foot off the brake, it will slowly roll forward.
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airschooled
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Joined: April 04, 2012
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Location: West Coast, USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| ccpalmer wrote: |
| I just went and tried going into gears again while sitting. With the engine on I at first could go into all gears easily then after a few tries 1st and 2nd got harder to get into... |
This smells like pilot (needle) bearing, but I am not saying it is, just that it smells like it....
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airschooled
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Joined: April 04, 2012
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Location: West Coast, USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Silverboot wrote: |
having a similar issue as well, took it into the shop, and they said that it was most likely the needle bearing not allowing the clutch to fully engage (or disengage, so that could be a possibility.
If mine is in gear with the clutch to the floor, if i take my foot off the brake, it will slowly roll forward. |
See, a bad pilot (needle) bearing could cause hard shifting, but I don't think it could grab the whole bus and move it forward without the assistance of a dragging clutch. Again, I've seen weird stuff, but never that...
Have you gone through the clutch pedal free play as shown above?
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Silverboot
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Posts: 108
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| asiab3 wrote: |
| Silverboot wrote: |
having a similar issue as well, took it into the shop, and they said that it was most likely the needle bearing not allowing the clutch to fully engage (or disengage, so that could be a possibility.
If mine is in gear with the clutch to the floor, if i take my foot off the brake, it will slowly roll forward. |
See, a bad pilot (needle) bearing could cause hard shifting, but I don't think it could grab the whole bus and move it forward without the assistance of a dragging clutch. Again, I've seen weird stuff, but never that...
Have you gone through the clutch pedal free play as shown above? |
i will check it tonight to see, should there not be any freeplay, or is there a minimal amount that is acceptable?
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SGKent 
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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If it shifts Ok when the engine is off but fails to do so when the engine is running, the first thing to do is
(1) check the clutch free play to be sure it is neither too tight from wear, or too loose with the cable stretching.
(2) check engine to transmission nuts to be sure they are not coming loose allowing the engine and trans to droop.
If those are Ok then it is time to pull the engine. When you do so
(1) replace the clutch disc - you can keep the pressure plate if it is good shape
(2) check the pilot bearing, grease if needed
(3) check the TO and be sure the clutch disc slides on the splines
(4) check the engine flywheel end play to be sure it is in spec
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ccpalmer
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Joined: September 17, 2006
Posts: 3851
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| asiab3 wrote: |
Have you gone through the clutch pedal free play as shown above? |
I just did, no change
| SGKent wrote: |
If it shifts Ok when the engine is off but fails to do so when the engine is running, the first thing to do is
(1) check the clutch free play to be sure it is neither too tight from wear, or too loose with the cable stretching.
(2) check engine to transmission nuts to be sure they are not coming loose allowing the engine and trans to droop.
If those are Ok then it is time to pull the engine. When you do so
(1) replace the clutch disc - you can keep the pressure plate if it is good shape
(2) check the pilot bearing, grease if needed
(3) check the TO and be sure the clutch disc slides on the splines
(4) check the engine flywheel end play to be sure it is in spec |
Sounds like it's engine pull time.
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Tcash
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Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12846
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Last time Gear Oil changed? |
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ccpalmer
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Joined: September 17, 2006
Posts: 3851
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Tcash wrote: |
| Last time Gear Oil changed? |
2 years ago
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ccpalmer
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Joined: September 17, 2006
Posts: 3851
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
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| Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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What grease should I use on my new pilot bearing?
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