Engine: Is it an "if" or "when" thing?

[streamr]

I'm looking at an original owner '86 Westy this weekend. Photos look great, history sounds good, etc. It has 155,000 miles on the original untouched engine. He said he's never had any problems with it, never had any leaks, never lost oil or coolant. I know there really is no answer to my question, but I guess I'm looking for opinions. Should I factor engine work into the price "if" it fails or "when" it fails. My last Westy was an '85 that needed head work done at 90,000 or so but was worry free for the next 60,000 before I sold it.
Thanks, I'm getting close to replacing the '85 that I should never have sold seven years ago.

[H2O-Box]

I am in the process of replacing the heads on my van currently. Now it has 120K on it and the engine runs great. I have never had any problems with the heads until I caused the reason for replacing them.

There is always a risk but if the proper maintenance is done the risk is reduced.

B-

[msinabottle]

When I bought him, Winston's speedometer had 144K on it. But when I rebuilt his instrument console, it was very clear that the speedo that came with him, that didn't work--wasn't his orginal speedometer. It had the tabs for a post-84 printed circuit. I have no idea at all how many miles are REALLY on him.



I left a note to that effect in the manual, BTW. So... HAS his transmission had the syncro failure, or not? The odds are (he IS 23 years old and has been driven), it has, and been rebuilt. But...

That's the fear that haunts me. One of these days I need to search and figure out if that's his original 1.9. I suspect it is.

Best!
_________________
'Winston,' '84 1.9 WBX Westy
Vanagon Poet Laureate: "I have suffered in
many ways, but never, never, never in silence."

[nomadik]

You sound like you are looking for reassurance

IF - if breaks down


WHEN - it breaks down.

I would say yes, it will break down but the question is when.

I would be asking. where is it going to break down. Why its going to break down. and How much will it cost.

[tencentlife]

streamr,
If that mileage is accurate, and both trans and motor are original, that van is facing two possible common failures. I would have to say that neither is an "if", both are a matter of "when".

In the trans, as Rob alluded to, there is the lurking problem of a crack developing in the 3-4th gear slider. This was a design flaw in a brass hub, that at some point will develop a crack and make it hard to shift into or out of 3rd or 4th gear. You do typically get some warning that way, and when the failure is complete, you will be either locked out of or stuck in 3 or 4. Failure does not usually trash the rest of the trans, but it has been known to cause further damage. Any recon work these days takes care of the problem; no one reputable is still installing the faulty part, but an improved version that hasn't got the weak feature. See this article for an thorough explanation:

http://www.gowesty.com/library_article.php?id=117

The engine: a 2.1 wbx at that mileage is coming right up on the magic number, when many 2.1's have a failure of one of the connecting rod bolts, the very first indication of which is an overly well-ventilated crankcase, as the rod then breaks and swings around and pokes a hole in the roof of the case. The rod bolts used on the 2.1 were of a different design and inherently weaker than the 1.9's, and combined with some other factors they are brought to the point of failure. At that point, the engine is toast; the case and crank may not be able to be reused, and those are the expensive cores in the motor. If the engine is rebuilt before that failure occurs, then the weakness will be addressed and rebuilt motors that have had it fixed should go for 200k+ miles as the 1.9's usually do. In order to fix the problem, the rods must be completely remachined, with stress on the big ends being round, and the earlier 1.9 type rod bolts used.

The only test that you can do to detect this problem developing is a hot oil pressure test. If the engine can't raise 29psi at 2000rpm with the oil at 170deg.F , the rods are probably already wearing into an oval shape, and the rod bolt failure due to the heat of poor lubrication won't be very far off. You can of course use this as a bargainig point if you really like the van otherwise; it's pretty normal for a 2.1 van with this kind of mileage to need a rebuild.

Rob and streamr,
You can check the date of manufacture of your trans by looking for the stamp, see p.3 in Bentley. It is on the right underside, below the lowest rib and forward of the drive flange. There will be a two-letter code (see p.35.32 for the codes and their gear ratios), followed by the day, month, and last number of the year it was made (e.g. "7" being a 1987).

If the production date matches that on the info plate inside the drivers door, on the front of the B-pillar at eye level, then you can be pretty sure the trans is original, as most replacements are done by swapping. If the year is late '89 or later, your trans is probably going to be fine; the flaw was fixed by VW late in the '89 model year.

[streamr]

Thanks for the info, very informative. I'll be looking at everything very carefully since he wants what I believe is top dollar.
Phil

[msinabottle]

<does obesiances, kow-tows, and salaams>

tencentlife, you DA VW BOMB!

Seriously, very grateful. If it DOES turn out to be the original transmission, I'll start budgeting for a rebuild before my core gets clobbered by the syncro failure.

Best!
_________________
'Winston,' '84 1.9 WBX Westy
Vanagon Poet Laureate: "I have suffered in
many ways, but never, never, never in silence."

[tencentlife]

My pleasure, Rob.

[msinabottle]

Thank you so very much.

I admit I was a bit nervous when I slid under Winston--not QUITE enough room for the creeper, he's lost a little bit of height when I got rid of those big squishy Big O sub-rating tires--and found the numbering on the transmission, which was:

DU 04 01 4

Okay, that's the slightly later O91/1 4 speed manual transmission, no surprises there, made on on 04/01/84.

Greeeeat. I was mentally calculating how to save my change and get a new transmission and swap it out as fast as possible as I fumbled out my keys and opened Winston's driver's side door.

Winston, Manufactured 1/84 (Partially manufactured and sent off to Westfalia). Transmission, manufactured 1 April, '84. Very unlikely that's the original transmission.

I told you Winston has a sense of humor...

APRIL FOOL'S!



The news is good. And my fears are banished.

And it will be a GOOD beer. Thank you so TERRIBLY much.

Best!
_________________
'Winston,' '84 1.9 WBX Westy
Vanagon Poet Laureate: "I have suffered in
many ways, but never, never, never in silence."

[tencentlife]

I quote myself:

[msinabottle]

Well, you can call in that beer, but... Drat.

Any other way to tell if the transmission's been rebuilt?

Well, heck.

Best!
_________________
'Winston,' '84 1.9 WBX Westy
Vanagon Poet Laureate: "I have suffered in
many ways, but never, never, never in silence."

[tencentlife]

Other than having a receipt, not that I know of. I'll bet some of the trans experts have some way of telling, but I sure don't know.

Nonetheless, next time I'm up Denver way, I'll call in that beer.

Ciao.