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Tire clearance help... again
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Fun 181
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 8:07 am    Post subject: Tire clearance help... again Reply with quote

O.K.
So my 15"x8" (3-3/4" backspacing) American Racing rims with Yokohama Geolander ATS 225/70R15 tires are just not clearing the fenders.

I have discs on the front and back so I have to have the 15" rims, and my new Rancho transaxle is geared for 28" tall tires so I need the height. It's the width that seems to be the problem.

I have decided that lifting the car is not an option. It will be too costly, and I am concerned about the handling after it is jacked up. Wider fenders are not an option either - not that they would help in this case.

Does anyone know if I will be able to get adequate clearance if I use 15" x 7" wheels? Specifically these:
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_754162_-1_36662
Note the 4" rear spacing.

Is anyone out there running 15" x 7" wheels? If so, what's your size tire size, and how much clearance (with the car loaded) are you getting?

Thanks,
Slim
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Captain Spalding
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 10:01 am    Post subject: Re: Tire clearance help... again Reply with quote

I'm sorry to say that it's not looking good, Slim.

I had to get out the calculator for this one. The bottom line is this:
The outboard edge of a stock tire on a stock rim will be 1 3/4" outboard of the face of the brake drum.
My 27x8.5R14s on stock rims are about 2 1/2 inches outboard of the drum face, and just avoid rubbing.
Your tire/wheel combo will place the edge of the tire 3.94 inches outboard of the drum face.

And that's if you had drum brakes. When I was researching disc brake conversions, there was only one kit that didn't widen the track. How about the bolt pattern on your disks? Do they match your wheels, or do you need an adapter plate, which will widen the track even more?
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Fun 181
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So Cap'n, are you saying that you are almost rubbing with a 14" stock set up? That can't be right.

When I bought the car it originally had 15 inch chrome rims and 205 75 15's dueller A/T's on it. I didn't have any clearance issues with it then.

The front discs came in the 5x4.5 bolt pattern to match my rims. The rear discs have bolt pattern adapters which add about a half inch. The main issue is rubbing in the front when turning, or hitting a bump.

Will the 4" rear spacing of the new rims take care of some of the problem or add to it?
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Captain Spalding
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fun 181 wrote:
So Cap'n, are you saying that you are almost rubbing with a 14" stock set up? That can't be right.

No, I'm saying that 27x8.5R14 or 205/75R15 is about as big as you are going to get with stock backspacing, stock suspension, stock fenders, no body lift and stock drum brakes. That opinion is based on 4 parts anecdotal discussion and 1 part empirical observation. YMMV, because we don't have a clue what your track is, because you have disk brakes and so have most probably widened your track. Speaking without any personal experience and only deductive reasoning, I'd pose that if 205's are as large as you can get with a stock beam, that if you put on a disk brake kit that widens the beam, 225s are not going to work unless you find a wheel with just the right backspacing. Without knowing the width of your axle, I couldn't calculate what that is.

The only thing I can tell you for sure relates to your question about changing to the narrower rims, it will move the outboard edge of your tire about 3/4" inboard. Lemme draw you a picture:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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Fun 181
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pay attention people.
This is why the Samba Thing forum is so awesome. Because of folks like Cap'n Spalding who has taken the time to create a diagram which helps me understand what he is saying. Well done!

Thanks Cap! The diagram does help. With the narrower 7" rims I'll see if 215s or 205s will work. Hopefully I'll be able to get this done by the weekend.
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Captain Spalding
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fun 181 wrote:
. . . With the narrower 7" rims I'll see if 215s or 205s will work. Hopefully I'll be able to get this done by the weekend.

Thanks for the kudos. Let us know how it works out. Also, if you know or can find out what disk brake kit you have, and whether or not or by how much the track is increased, then we can have a definitive reference for the future, i.e. 225s will work with stock ride height, stock fenders, the brand x brake kit, and aftermarket wheels with x.xx backspacing. That would make this whole exercise useful to lots of people.

Good luck.
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sam_w
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 12:10 am    Post subject: are 15" thing rims bus wide 15's? Reply with quote

here is a pic of the wheel rim, and the 15" is a 211 (bus) part number.
As I also have a1963 singlecab with 15" wheels will they work on my thingster?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


the bus wheel is a 211 601 027 E and I think that is a standard wide 4.5 rim
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Fun 181
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just spoke with the tire shop and they seem to think that the Yokohama Geolander ATS 225/70R15 tires I am currently using will get enough clearance on the narrower 7" rims (with the 4" backspacing). If not then we'll try the 215s. I won't be able to get the Thing to the shop for a couple of days.

I will post pics of my old and new wheels, as well as my brake info by this weekend after everything is done. Hopefully others can learn from my... adventures.

The 15" VW rims pictured above look exactly like what I had on my Thing when I bought it. At 4.5" wide there should be no problem.
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Fun 181
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As promised...

here are the before photos of the American Racing black Mojave rims (15" x 8" with 3.75" backspacing) with the Yokohama Geolander 225/70/15s. Note the distance between the front tire and the front fender - this is where the main clearance problem was. Turning and braking being the biggest issue.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Front:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Another view:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Back:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here are the after pics with the new Crager rims (15"x7" with a 4" backspacing) - alot cheaper (quality and looks), but still the same look that I was going for. The tires are alot smaller: 205/75/15s. They gave me an inch more clearance overall. The total tire height now is just over 27".

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Back:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Front:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I didn't have any problems with the smaller tires on the way home from the shop, and I tried braking hard and turning to see what would happen. They seem O.K.

I'm going to put in some new, stiffer shocks and call it a day.
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your car looks great. Are you pleased?
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Fun 181
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well...
I'm pleased that I can finally drive it without the tires rubbing, but I am concerned about the overall tire height.

Having gone from a 28" tire to a 27" tire (with the trans geared for a 28" tire) how much effect will this have on the engine? More torque? Higher reving? Overheating? I'm not sure.
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a nifty tire calculator HERE. It's great for making these types of comparisons.

I plugged in 225/70R15 and 205/75R15. While the 225 may nominally be a 28" tire, it's actually somewhat shorter. The 205 is likewise somewhat taller than 27 in., so the difference in diameter works out to be only about 0.3 in., or about 1%. So where the difference in those two tire sizes is concerned, it's not an issue. Very Happy

More torque? Only slightly. But that's not bad. Higher revving? Again, slightly, but it only affects your highway cruising speed. Overheating? Not an issue, esp. with your new tranny. Even with a stock tranny and 205s, many folks run that type of wheel without cooling problems. And that's a diameter difference of about 5.4% diameter over stock.

There are lots of these types of calculators online. If you can post the gear ratios of your transmission and R&P, we can compare torque and cruising speed to a stock Thing. Fun.
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baseballfreak20
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gee...this tire thing seems to be an issue for us new guys.
All I want to do is put BFG 215/75R15 AT's on a 15X7X3.75 wheel. Does this mean they won't fit? Can I just throw some air shocks on or something inexpensive but realistic? I can't seem to find a rugged tire like the BFG in a 205/75R15.
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Ferretkona
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have 215/75/15's on my thing with no problems. We have the Empi rims and no rubbing. We have a decent tire of the Remington Wide Brutes.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

baseballfreak20 wrote:
Can I just throw some air shocks on or something inexpensive but realistic?


"air shocks or something inexpensive" is usually not inexpensive or realistic in the long run. It is your thing, go wild or stock, but short cuts can be very expensive.
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Towel Rail
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going from a 28" tire to a 27" tire shouldn't cause any problems.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well alrighty then. Do you know what the offset is on your Empi's? I mounted the wheels only on it and my backspacing (3.75) makes the wheels stick out a bit. And.....the 215/75/15 are almost 28". I'm kinda thinking worst case scenario, can I put four air shocks on to lift it a touch? If so, what kind of air shocks?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I was bored after cleaning out some old parts from my garage and wondered what a 30” tire would look like stuffed under a stock height suspension with stock fenders.

I did this just for my own entertainment but thought I would share the pictures with you guys.

Mind you this is just an approximate fit since I cannot bolt these wheels to the stock drum. I jacked up the car from the shock mount until the center of the drum was inline with the center of the wheel. This gives me a rough ride height even thought there isn’t any real front end left on this car to weight it down. The wheel is sitting on the ground and there is a 3/8” gap between the drum and the wheel. This is a 17x7.5 wheel with 5.75” back space. The tires are 265R60/17 (30”x10”) Yokohama AVS S/T.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This one show’s the gap between the drum and the wheel.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


If you don’t ever hit a bump or turn very far you might be able to get away with this on a stock car. LOL
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey suntour, how is your project going? I see the surgery is pretty far along. Shocked


Inspired, I decided to test-fit two of the 7.0x15s on my car. They measure 29" tall, by the way.

Before, with 205/75R14s. Roughly 2.5" between top of tire and fender lip in front, 3.5" in rear.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


After. Roughly 1.5" from top of tire to fender lip in front, 2.5" in rear. I had to "shim" my jack quite a bit to get the the car high enough, lol.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I love the way these look, but the car will definitely need to be raised a little to give them some room. Here are some more pics of the height difference:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Cool
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So then, what's the BEST way to raise it? It's definetly the look I'm looking for but selling my wife is not (at this moment) an option.
OH.....thanks to all who have responded to this. I just bought my THING not so long along and the advise on this site is absolutely AWESOME!
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