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Propane tank auto shut off valve revisted
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RCWesty
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:47 pm    Post subject: Propane tank auto shut off valve revisted Reply with quote

Sorry about the re-post on this issue, but I completely removed my propane tank this sunday following many weeks of procrastination. A trip to the local propane station (PS) about a month ago resulted in all of the propane leaking out of the small hole on the fill valve. I'm hesitant to return to without replacing this part and making future trips to PS easier. I figured now would be a good time to clean and repaint tank and replace regulator, fill valve and shut off valve.

My understanding from previous posts are refill adapter and fill valve can be purchased from
http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/lp-gas/propane-refill-adapter.htm
and the regulator from http://www.busdepot.com/details.jsp?partnumber=253070604

original equipment for the refill adapter was designed with an auto shut off valve. the replacement from ppl above does not have a auto shut off valve. Also appears simplified from the square original valve.

my question is this: What is the correct solution to allowing the internal pressure to released while refilling? Earlier posts did not address this issue to the best of my knowledge. There is another small copper line that returns to the fill valve. What happens to this line when replaced by ppl valve?

Also, a propane dealer in Carson City (NV) suggested replacing the tank due to lack of parts, inability to adequately vent while refilling and potential for overfilling tank. He indicated these replacement parts will allow the PS to fill tank more than 70 percent (cut off provided by auto shutoff) and could result failure due to heat expansion. This could result in rupture or worse, potential fire (unlikely I thought). He gave me manchester tank www.mantank.com info. I contacted them separately and they indicated that they only deal with licensed distributors and they mentioned gowesty by name. Interesting connection.. These scare tactics are very familiar.

What is the correct solution to replacing fill valve to avoid the kaboom factor. Hate to think these easy fixes are not correct or safe.

of the folks that have replaced these three items, are they satisfied with their results?
tanks in advance.

Confused
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captainpartytime
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm no expert with these tanks but my experience researching and replacing the service valve/regulator/bleeder screw has given me a little insight. I don't think you can overfill the tank if filled properly. If the bleeder screw is not open you can't fill the tank at all...the air inside the tank has to escape somehow if you want to replace it with propane. Once you fill the tank liquid propane shoots out the bleeder valve preventing one from overfilling the tank. I replaced all the valves and hose after painting my tank and have been very satisfied with the results. This is an easy, straightforward job that is very satisfying. Don't buy a new tank, these Manchester tanks were built to last a long time. Go for it.
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:38 am    Post subject: Re: Propane tank auto shut off valve revisted Reply with quote

<< A trip to the local propane station (PS) about a month ago resulted in all of the propane leaking out of the small hole on the fill valve. I'm hesitant to return to without replacing this part and making future trips to PS easier.>>

A real common problem with the Autostop fill valve, and it would be a real good idea to replace it with an OE Type 2 Bus manual valve.

<I figured now would be a good time to clean and repaint tank and replace regulator, fill valve and shut off valve.>>

The regulator & Fill valve yes.
The shut off valve isn't a big wear item, and doesn't really ever wear out.

<<My understanding from previous posts are refill adapter and fill valve can be purchased from
http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/lp-gas/propane-refill-adapter.htm>>

Beware of the Acme fill valve.
It isn't the same valve as Westfalia used in the early Buses, and is lighter duty.
The pressure one way spring inside the valve isn't the same as the OE Westfalia spec'ed valve, and is smaller in diameter.
It's a lightweight valve.

It'll be a leaker too in time.

The factory Westy fill valve is a Rego valve--and a better set up.

<<original equipment for the refill adapter was designed with an auto shut off valve. the replacement from ppl above does not have a auto shut off valve. Also appears simplified from the square original valve.>>

If you take a look at any early Westfalia propane tank, you'll notice that they didn't use the autostop valve either.

I have no idea what genius decided to use them on a Vanagon Westy.
They proved to be a problem, and fail often.

<<my question is this: What is the correct solution to allowing the internal pressure to released while refilling?>>

Simple.
Open up the bleeder valve.
The propane will fill the 80% full level,& spit the excess propane out of it.
Shut the bleeder off, your done.

<<Earlier posts did not address this issue to the best of my knowledge. There is another small copper line that returns to the fill valve. What happens to this line when replaced by ppl valve>>

Nothing.
Remove it.

<<Also, a propane dealer in Carson City (NV) suggested replacing the tank due to lack of parts, inability to adequately vent while refilling and potential for overfilling tank.>>

There is no way to overfill he tank with the bleeder open , as it should be when loading up.
The dealer is wrong.

<< He indicated these replacement parts will allow the PS to fill tank more than 70 percent (cut off provided by auto shutoff) and could result failure due to heat expansion.>>

No--he's wrong here.

<< This could result in rupture or worse, potential fire (unlikely I thought). He gave me manchester tank www.mantank.com info. I contacted them separately and they indicated that they only deal with licensed distributors and they mentioned gowesty by name. Interesting connection.. These scare tactics are very familiar.>>

And this is just what that was--a scare tactic.
Nothing more.

<<What is the correct solution to replacing fill valve to avoid the kaboom factor. Hate to think these easy fixes are not correct or safe.>>

It isn't a diffcult fix, and the correct OE fill valve is available here at thesamaba.com Vanagon parts listings, or at;
http://community.webtv.net/VanStuff/VanagonWestfalia

You'll find the correct factory Westfalia OE replacement fill valve in either location.

One more suggestion and word of caution.
Whenever you get to replacing that valve--DO NOT use teflon tape on the threads.

Use Teflon paste or just plain old pipe dope.

Be safe with this durring installation time.

<< of the folks that have replaced these three items, are they satisfied with their results? >>

I replaced my autostop valve on my 87 6 years ago with an early Westy type valve.
It hasn't ever failed to allow the propane to fill the tank, and the propane attendant hasn't ever had a problem filling it up because of a stuck, or just plain non working autostop valve.

It's the best fix for this problem.
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did the tank restoration on mine, only to find the regulator was leaking first time I had the tank filled. I was not able to match the original regulator. The replacements are about an inch longer. I had to drop the tank. Cut the copper lines and reflare them. Was a bit of a pain in the arse laying on the ground trying to flare what was left of the tubing after cutting off the excess. Don't forget the nuts before you reflare. It all came out nice. I am using the original bleed off without problems. My main on off valve leaks in partial position. Full off or full on it is fine. I will address that next time I need a fill. I was rushing to finish everything before going on a trip and ran out of time.
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RCWesty
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:06 pm    Post subject: clarity Reply with quote

Terry Kay,
So the replacement you are suggesting has the manual bleeder valve. where does the bleeder valve get installed? from the photo, they look like separate items and original valve has the manual release behind the plate with 4 screws.

what happens to the line that returns to the fill valve? when you say "nothing remove it" I assume I need to cap it, right? or is that were the manual bleeder gets installed?

Do directions come with the valve? It seems easy enough, but slightly dangerous.
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jarred
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The manual bleed valve is threaded into the take-off hole for the automatic shut-off valve, directly above the fill port.

But, brass bodied auto shut-off valves can be rebuilt. Propane shops can sell you a $50 kit, or do it for you. You wouldn't have brass unless it was replaced at some point, it's more likely yours is aluminum. They don't rebuild the aluminum bodied valves because aluminum corrodes into aluminum oxide leaving a pitted surface for the o-rings to try and seat against. However, I did rebuild my aluminum bodied valve with success. The sealing surfaces for the o-rings in the aluminum valve appear to be hard-coat anodized. If those surfaces are still intact you can just replace the 4 o-rings... really, they charge $50 for a kit of 4 small o-rings, that's all it is. Buna-n (nitrile) is the preferred 0-ring material for propane compatibility, although I think viton is okay too. Sorry, I matched the o-rings side-by-side and can't provide sizes, you can get the correct material from mcmaster.com or another industrial supplier outfit that knows something about o-rings. Use o-ring lube or silicon grease during assembly. When you have the tank filled, make sure the attendant opens the bleed port all the away otherwise the valve will pop closed and keep the tank from filling. There's nothing wrong with these valve systems, they just require some maintenance like anything else. I'd also suggest replacing the one o-ring in the tank shut off valve (valve that opens tank to regulator). Undo the flat-head screw to get the valve handle off, then unthread the valve with a big wrench... it's a reverse thread: righty loosey. Use the flats on the inner thread to thread out the valve seat. There's an o-ring in there that you want to replace. Repair of both of these valves runs $5 in parts, much less than a new fill valve and manual bleed.
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