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1968~79 VW Type 2 Electrics: Upgrades & Modifications
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NASkeet
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:51 am    Post subject: 1968~79 VW Type 2 Electrics: Upgrades & Modifications Reply with quote

1971~79 VW TYPE 2, FUSE & RELAY BOX, RELAY-CONNECTION POSITIONS

The stock 1971~79 VW Type 2 fuse & relay box, has provision for twelve ceramic fuses (available in 5, 8, 16 & 25 amp ratings) and five relays. Of the five fuse positions, only one is allocated for accessories; this having a permanently live battery supply (fuse-box terminal-30), rather than being ignition controlled (fuse-box terminals-15 & X).

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Relay position 1, has recepticles numbered 1 to 5, for five latched, 63mm female blade-connectors. Although this relay position could be used for a general-purpose accessory relay, it is normally allocated for the connection of a 3, 4 or 5-terminal, direction-indicator & hazard-warning-light flasher relay (i.e. turn-signal or blinker & emergency flasher relay, in USA parlance).

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=338652

Recepticle 1 => Terminal 49a or L
Recepticle 2 => Terminal 49 or +
Recepticle 3 => Terminal 31 or
Recepticle 4 => Terminal C or redundant
Recepticle 5 => Terminal C2 or redundant

Relay position 2, has recepticles numbered 6 to 10, for five latched, 63 mm female blade-connectors, whose disposition are designed specifically for the 4-terminal, headlamp dimming relay (North American specification - VW part No. 411 941 583 C ) or 5-terminal, headlamp dipping & flasher relay (British & European specification - VW part No. 411 941 583 B).

Recepticle 6 => Terminal 56
Recepticle 7 => Terminal 56b
Recepticle 8 => Terminal 56a
Recepticle 9 => Terminal S
Recepticle 10 => Terminal 30 or locating lug

It is the additional terminal-30, of the 5-terminal, headlamp dipping & flasher relay, connected to a permanently live battery supply (fuse-box terminal-30, via recepticle number 10, which enables the headlamp main beam (i.e. high beam, in USA parlance), to be flashed on, using the steering-column mounted, headlamp dip switch, even when the main light switch is off.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=327513

North American specification vehicles, can be conferred with this facility, simply by substituting the British & European specification relay and making the additional wiring connection; no other modifications being necessary. These observations are equally applicable, to the air-cooled VW Types 1, 3 & 4, plus possibly some of the water-cooled VWs & Audis, of 1970s vintage.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Relay position 3, has recepticles numbered 12, 14, 15, 16 & 18, for five latched, 63 mm female blade-connectors, plus recepticles numbered 11, 13, 17 & 19, for four latched, 28 mm female blade-connectors. Relay position 3, is thought to be allocated to the 2-terminal warning buzzer, fitted to North American specification vehicles.

Relay position 4, has recepticles numbered 21, 23, 24, 25 & 27, for five latched, 63 mm female blade-connectors, plus recepticles numbered 20, 22, 26 & 28, for four latched, 28 mm female blade-connectors.

Relay position 5, has recepticles numbered 30, 32, 33, 34 & 36, for five latched, 63 mm female blade-connectors, plus recepticles numbered 29, 31, 35 & 37, for four latched, 28 mm female blade-connectors.

The three relay positions 3, 4 & 5, are of identical configuration and are suitable for connecting a wide variety of different relays, including the commonly available, general-purpose accessory relays, changeover relays and warning buzzers, plus the more specialised relays, such as those used for windscreen-wiper, intermittent-sweep, frequency control; some of which, have one or more 28 mm male blade-terminals.

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**********************************************************************************************************************************************

UPGRADING FUSE & RELAY BOX PROVISION

Several years ago, when contemplating the electrical system upgrade, of my British specification, 1973 VW "1600" Type 2, Westfalia Continental campervan, without resorting to expensive accessory fuse boxes and relay boxes, such as those available from Vehicle Wiring Services, I explored the possibility of adapting second-hand parts, salvaged from a variety of car marques.

http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.co.uk

Phase 1, was to substitute a modified fuse & relay box, salvaged from a Vauxhall Cavalier Mk.2, which has basic provision for eighteen plastic blade fuses (available in 3, 4, 5, 7, 10, 15, 20, 25 & 30 amp ratings) and four standard relays, each having upto five 63 mm (i.e. -inch) male blade terminals. I also salvaged additional 1, 2 & 3-position (i.e. sharing a common supply cable), blade-fuse, electrical connectors cum recepticles, from various other Mazda (surprisingly, they were identical!) and Vauxhall cars' fuse boxes; uncrimping the cables, so that they could be re-used in customising my own fuse box. There are five supplementary slots, for clip-in plastic modules of two types, which accommodate either a single relay or two plastic blade fuses. Vauxhall & Opel, are the British & European division (or divisions), of the General Motors Corporation.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=328147

To accommodate the VW headlamp dimming relay (North American specification - VW part No. 411 941 583 C) or headlamp dipping & flasher relay (British & European specification - VW part No. 411 941 583 B), I modified one of the black plastic, supplementary double fuse-holder modules, by heat welding in the appropriate section from the original VW Type 2 fuse cum relay box, using a flame-heated pallette knife and an electric soldering iron.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=328148

The plastic, supplementary relay-connector cum mounting blocks I used, were coloured black, but others, coloured purple, light-blue, green and yellow, are also readily available. They are of the same terminal-recepticle configuration, as relay positions 3, 4 & 5, of the stock 1971~79 VW Type 2 fuse & relay box; having recepticles numbered 2, 4, 5, 6 & 8, for five latched, 63 mm female blade-connectors, plus recepticles numbered 1, 3, 7 & 9, for four latched, 28 mm female blade-connectors.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=327972

The coloured plastic, supplementary relay-connector cum mounting blocks, fitted to various Vauxhall car model's fuse & relay boxes, can also be used as trailing connector blocks for accessory relays, remote-mounted using their own integral mounting brackets. The different colours, also serve as a reminder about which connector blocks, are associated with which relays. I previously used one of these coloured connector blocks, for a relay mounted in the engine compartment, which served the electric de-icer element, for the single Minnow Fish carburettor, on my 1973 VW 1600 Type 2, AD-series, twin-port engine.

In addition to these, there are alternative relay-connector cum mounting blocks, of Rists (a division of Lucas Industries) and/or RWC brands, available in a variety of colours, including black, white & red, fitted to the British, Austin Montego, Maestro & Metro car models, which can either be mounted on brackets or used as trailing connector blocks. They are of the same terminal-recepticle configuration, as relay position 1, of the stock 1970~79 VW Type 2 fuse & relay box; having recepticles numbered 30, 85, 86, 87 & 87a, for five latched, 63 mm female blade-connectors, corresponding to the typical terminal labels, on 5-terminal relays.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=327973

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Phase 2, involved retro-fitting a pair of unmodified, six-position, relay mounting cum connector blocks, salvaged from Austin Montego and/or late-model Austin Metro cars. These are fitted beneath the horizontal steering-column support bracket, using custom, home-made duralumin brackets, which also conceal the electrical cables from view. When the brackets are painted satin black to match the dashboard and steering column, the installation will have a virtually factory-fitted appearance. If in the future, I need to make provision for more relays in the cab, I might fabricate some longer, replacement duralumin brackets, to accommodate a total of three, six-postion, relay mounting cum connector blocks.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=327969

Knowing that I would wish to site accessory relays and fuses in the engine compartment, I modified an enclosed fuse & relay box, salvaged from a mid-1980s vintage Lancia Delta, which has provision for sixteen ceramic fuses (available in 5, 8, 16 & 25 amp ratings) and seven standard relays, each having upto five 63 mm (i.e. -inch) male blade terminals. I envisage using all of the relay positions, but will probably have a few unasigned fuse positions!
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Nigel A. Skeet

Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper

Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)

http://www.vwt2oc.net


Last edited by NASkeet on Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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keifernet
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interseting indeed... nice work and nice of you take the time for such a detailed write up.
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NASkeet
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:02 am    Post subject: 1968~79 VW Type 2 Electrics: Upgrades & Modifications Reply with quote

keifernet wrote:
Interseting indeed... nice work and nice of you take the time for such a detailed write up.


That is just for starters!

I shall be editing and supplementing this post in the future.
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Nigel A. Skeet

Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper

Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)

http://www.vwt2oc.net
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yay pictures!

Keep up the good work.
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itlives
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course, this should be a sitcky.
Only if subsequent posts are up to par.
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david_594
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I wasnt a big fan of the 12 spade connectors you need to disconnect for removing the cluster and the subsequent figuring out of where they need to go afterwards. So I bought a pair of vga connectors from radioshack and some 22 gauge wires and used them as a quick disconnect for the cluster. $8 in parts and I think it came out decent. VGA connectors are 15 wire connectors so there are currently 3 free for future anything. I also didnt run the larger ground through the connector as it was bigger than 22 gauge. So its now the vga connector and the single spade connector to remove the cluster.

The cluster side:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And the car side:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love ANYTHING that simplifies the wiring setup behind the dash...thanks guys!
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NASkeet
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:53 am    Post subject: 1968~79 VW Type 2 Electrics: Upgrades & Modifications Reply with quote

david_594 wrote:
So I wasnt a big fan of the 12 spade connectors you need to disconnect for removing the cluster and the subsequent figuring out of where they need to go afterwards. So I bought a pair of vga connectors from radioshack and some 22 gauge wires and used them as a quick disconnect for the cluster. $8 in parts and I think it came out decent. VGA connectors are 15 wire connectors so there are currently 3 free for future anything. I also didnt run the larger ground through the connector as it was bigger than 22 gauge. So its now the vga connector and the single spade connector to remove the cluster.

The cluster side:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And the car side:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I did much the same sort of thing, but using just one of the several multi-way, miniature connector blocks, I had salvaged from a mid-1980s vintage, Honda Accord Executive, together with parts of the wiring loom, which furnished me with various gauges of cable and wiring colours.

I also created much more slack in the cable, so that the instument panel could be pulled out a long way, to gain easy access to instrument bulb holders, the things behind the panel and to easily diconnect the multi-way connector block. I like easy accessabilty!

Overall, I bought a bulging plastic carrier bag full of second-hand relays, single & six-position relay connector-blocks, multi-way wiring connector blocks and cable, etc., for about 10 Sterling (i.e. circa US$20).
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Nigel A. Skeet

Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper

Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)

http://www.vwt2oc.net
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man, this should really be a sticky, or at the very least go somewhere that it's not going to fall off the face of the earth...
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:01 am    Post subject: 1968~79 VW Type 2 Electrics: Upgrades & Modifications Reply with quote

82-T/A wrote:
Man, this should really be a sticky, or at the very least go somewhere that it's not going to fall off the face of the earth...


It has always been one of my concerns, that many of my posts, which are really long-term, piece-meal technical articles, tend to get lost in the system, once people stop posting questions, replies and comments.

Here are links to some more of my posts, which could be regarded as electrical system upgrades & modifications:


Upgrading warning-light function & provision

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2628115#2628115


Brake-system, electrical circuit modifications & upgrade

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=260176&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0


Independent direction-indicator warning light upgrade

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2628141#2628141
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Nigel A. Skeet

Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper

Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)

http://www.vwt2oc.net
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great ideas and pictures, I am looking for a way to decrease the tangle behind my instrument cluster. One question: on my '68 I have two male tabs for ground above the fuel gauge; what should go to these?
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NASkeet
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:31 am    Post subject: 1968~79 VW Type 2 Electrics: Upgrades & Modifications Reply with quote

rhinoman1947 wrote:
Great ideas and pictures, I am looking for a way to decrease the tangle behind my instrument cluster. One question: on my '68 I have two male tabs for ground above the fuel gauge; what should go to these?


One -inch male-blade earth (i.e. ground) terminal, should be connected to earth (i.e. ground) on the vehicle bodywork, whilst the other -inch male-blade earth (i.e. ground) terminal, acts as a convenient earthing (i.e. grounding) connection for the gauges and warning lights which require it.
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Nigel A. Skeet

Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper

Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)

http://www.vwt2oc.net
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you so much! That bit of info will allow me to eliminate some of the wiring mess I have accrued with the addition of gauges.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love how you Brits say "earth" instead of "ground"...it just sounds so much more....sophisticated Wink Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy Nigel, you are a midfield of useful information. I read your posts with great interest & do intend to apply some of your ideas.
Can I ask you what is or was your profession & what part of the UK do you live?
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:53 am    Post subject: 1968~79 VW Type 2 Electrics: Upgrades & Modifications Reply with quote

chrisradioman wrote:
Very Happy Nigel, you are a midfield of useful information. I read your posts with great interest & do intend to apply some of your ideas.
Can I ask you what is or was your profession & what part of the UK do you live?


Dear Chris.

As shown in all my posts, I live on Canvey Island, Essex, close to the North bank of the River Thames estuary, about 30 miles East of London.

By profession, I'm a hybrid of graduate physicist, engineer, mathematician and teacher, working these days as a self-employed tutor, of which ever topics arise within this spectrum, at levels ranging from GCSE or equivalent, to university first degree (i.e. B.Sc., B.Eng., B.tech. & B.A. ) or equivalent.
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Nigel A. Skeet

Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper

Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)

http://www.vwt2oc.net


Last edited by NASkeet on Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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NASkeet
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:59 am    Post subject: 1968~79 VW Type 2 Electrics: Upgrades & Modifications Reply with quote

rhinoman1947 wrote:
Thank you so much! That bit of info will allow me to eliminate some of the wiring mess I have accrued with the addition of gauges.


Here are some of my extra gauges, which connect to the main wiring loom, via one of the second-hand, miniature, two-piece, multi-way connector blocks, I salvaged from the mid-1980s vintage Honda Accord Executive:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Note also the switch panel, where the ash tray would normally fit.
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Regards.

Nigel A. Skeet

Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper

Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)

http://www.vwt2oc.net
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whats in that panel,
am I right?:-
Ammeter,
Oil pressure,
Volt meter,
Head temp,
Oil temp.
Your us must be great to drive, I am a big gadget fan. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bump, I like this thread.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 1968~79 VW Type 2 Electrics: Upgrades & Modification Reply with quote

NASkeet wrote:


Relay position 2, has recepticles numbered 6 to 10, for five latched, 63 mm female blade-connectors, hose disposition are designed specifically for the 4-terminal, headlamp dimming relay (North American specification - VW part No. 411 941 583 C ) or 5-terminal, headlamp dipping & flasher relay (British & European specification - VW part No. 411 941 583 B).


It is the additional terminal-30, of the 5-terminal, headlamp dipping & flasher relay, connected to a permanently live battery supply (fuse-box terminal-30, via recepticle number 10, which enables the headlamp main beam (i.e. high beam, in USA parlance), to be flashed on, using the steering-column mounted, headlamp dip switch, even when the main light switch is off.


For those readers in the US, the 411 941 583b dim/flash relay used in the non-US vehicles is currently available new as a Neihoff RL37261 (available at Kragen Auto Parts, etc. $31.00, made in China.) I have installed this unit in my '71 panel van (211) and it works correctly.

If available, Meyle 100 941 0006 (Germany) is also indicated as being equivalent and could be a better part choice, but I have not tried it.

In either case, US vehicles will need to add a connection from terminal 30 of the relay to the 12 volt buss. You will need a 6 inch wire with female 1/4 inch (6.3 mm) blade terminals on either end to make this connection.

While VW did not think it necessary, I have been adding short lengths of heat shrink tubing over all electrical terminals on the fuse block, headlight switch and emergency flasher switch as protection against accidental shorts and the resulting electrical meltdown, as many of these wires are unfused.

For what it's worth.

T Dorr
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