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Snow camping heat loss
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skicam
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:01 am    Post subject: Snow camping heat loss Reply with quote

OK, so now I have the killer Propex HS2000 heater installed and it kicks out good heat... does anyone do much snow camping ? I need to figure out how to stop the heat loss from pop top to front windows... Insulation tricks ?
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CF
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

there is a post in the limbo site on how to make the pop top more insulated.
there is also the window insulation kits from the regular suppliers.

the biggest heat loss is from the sliding door
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motelvw
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The window insulation works great. We have a front set for winter camping. Keeping your top down makes a big difference too.
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have heard from some that made a fleece snap in cover for between the down and up top when top poped. (say your gear is up there for night time space&storage. this keeps the air from freely mingling and collecting up by the roof.

also a fellow who lists in the adverts here, makes a set of foil insulation for around the canvas, that is cloth faced to not make black rub marks from the raw aluminum of the foil faced bubble wrap..
*consider that if you have a new & clean canvas and DIY a foilfaced bubble insulation blanket..
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riceye
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of these would help. By creating a dead air space between the rainfly and the pop top canvas, the rate of heat loss should drop.

On the downside, there will be increased condensation.
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ranchero
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CF wrote:
snip, snip...

the biggest heat loss is from the sliding door


I'm curious about this.... As I write, I'm sitting in the Westy. It is 5 degrees and the propex has been on for about 15 minutes. It's bearable, but I'm wearing a down jacket. My son and I slept it it last weekend with the top up. The temp got down to about 10. The propex was on much of the night. I don't know the inside temp, but I was comfortable in a 30 degree bag. I would guess that it never got above 40-45 in the van.

Do you mean the biggest heat loss is the sliding door because it is the biggest single panel, seals, lack of insulation, etc?
Thanks
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have the window's insulated, and a pop top insulation kit that reflects 99 % of the heat back into the Van---you shoud be doing much better with the propex inside the Van--much better than your telling us anyway.

With the window insulation kit all the way around and the pop topinsulation kit installed I keep the interior of my Westies, as well as my Sportsmoble at a comfortable 55--56 degree's in the coldest weather--well usual cold weather--

Maybe at -50 below it may only get to 30 or 40 degree's inside the Van--

But it doesn't get that cold around here--normally.

And all's I'm using for heat is a Mr. Buddy heater.

The proper insulation makes a big difference in retaining & reflecting heat back at you.

If you need a little more a 12 volt electric blanket will make you sweat inside the Van.--
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dirtslinger2
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK- semi off topic.... but pertinent... when heating inside with an UNvented propane heater, does the CO2 sink to the ground or float up?
This weekend will be the first time camping with a dog on the floor, even with the window cracked I don't want the floor-puppy missing out on air!!

Thanks
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jackbombay
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CO2 will mix with the rest of the air uniformly.
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CF
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ranchero wrote:
CF wrote:
snip, snip...

the biggest heat loss is from the sliding door


I'm curious about this.... As I write, I'm sitting in the Westy. It is 5 degrees and the propex has been on for about 15 minutes. It's bearable, but I'm wearing a down jacket. My son and I slept it it last weekend with the top up. The temp got down to about 10. The propex was on much of the night. I don't know the inside temp, but I was comfortable in a 30 degree bag. I would guess that it never got above 40-45 in the van.

Do you mean the biggest heat loss is the sliding door because it is the biggest single panel, seals, lack of insulation, etc?
Thanks



nope
it's opening and closing the slide door
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tclark
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry Kay wrote:


And all's I'm using for heat is a Mr. Buddy heater.


So TK you dont seem to have lost any brain cells from co2 ? Smile
how do you vent the van when it cold like that with the Mr Buddy burning inside the van ?
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Rodknock
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One cold and windy night last fall, I froze my pistons off sleeping in the top bunk, while my wife and daughter were warm and cozy in the bottom bunk, the Propex heater running most of the night. While up there trying to stay warm, I noticed how permeable the regular canvas is. Millions of tiny holes. I also suspect there was some kind of temperature inversion going on. So I got the GoWesty rain fly kit, and when installed I suspect it will make a big difference. I can sleep in my 2-man tent and it gets pretty warm in there in low outside temps. I think the nylon tent material traps heat much, much better than canvas.
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

<<how do you vent the van when it cold like that with the Mr Buddy burning inside the van ?

Real simple.
I installed a stainless Nicro Solar/ battery powered roof vent 8 years ago for interior ventilation.
I doubles as summer time vent when there is moderate temps.

Besides the Mr. Buddy Heater has an automtic low oxygen shut down.

I'm good.
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

for sleeping comfort don't rule out the silent and safe 12volt electric blankets. truckers have had them for years..

they draw about ~6amps, sure it's more then the propex and other options but not out of the capacity of a deepcycle battery for the night..
you just have to put that energy back in either via sufficient driving or 110vt recharger..
in said case 110vt is available you can use a home brand 110vt electric blanket.. plus space heater..

I suspect the 12vt would cover more flexability.

Dan
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targis58
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry Kay wrote:
If you have the window's insulated, and a pop top insulation kit that reflects 99 % of the heat back into the Van---you shoud be doing much better with the propex inside the Van--much better than your telling us anyway.

With the window insulation kit all the way around and the pop topinsulation kit installed I keep the interior of my Westies, as well as my Sportsmoble at a comfortable 55--56 degree's in the coldest weather--well usual cold weather--

Maybe at -50 below it may only get to 30 or 40 degree's inside the Van--

But it doesn't get that cold around here--normally.

And all's I'm using for heat is a Mr. Buddy heater.

The proper insulation makes a big difference in retaining & reflecting heat back at you.

If you need a little more a 12 volt electric blanket will make you sweat inside the Van.--


which window insulation and pop top insulation are you refering to?
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targis58
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry Kay wrote:
<<how do you vent the van when it cold like that with the Mr Buddy burning inside the van ?

Real simple.
I installed a stainless Nicro Solar/ battery powered roof vent


where did you install the vent? and which model was it?
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westyventures
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need insulation when temps approach the single digits! I use the 1/4" reflective insulation available at Home Despot / Lowes, cut a panel the shape of each window, tape in place, velcro, whatever. Also 1/2" carpet padding under your carpet or a thick rug helps. For the top, I usually keep it down in winter, but add a layer of the insulation there as well. If you need it up, add a well-fitted layer of the same insualtion all around the top, including the ceiling. Drop a divider curtain behind the front seats if not using that area.

Any or all of this will make a HUGE difference.

Karl
www.propexusa.com
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skicam
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:49 pm    Post subject: Window insulation kits... Reply with quote

I tried Go Westy and Van Cafe but could not find any window insulation kits... any clues what site ? Also, what is the limbo site ? Sorrr, I'm a newbie...
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

www.limbobus.org I believe

and this fella in Saline, Michigan Jonce Fancher
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=399613
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

<<where did you install the vent? and which model was it?>>


Mid Ships on the pop top.

Nicro 4" #16-734-0298

It'll run for 48 hours without any sun--on a single charge.

This is a real nice summer, & winter camping accesory.

No need to keep a window cracked if you choose to use a Coleman or Mr. Buddy Heater.

Plus you get astro flow through ventilation throughout the Van if you want it---when you want it.

It's a good idea,, and better than what Westfailai offered from the factory.
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