Handling improvements

[dsomoroff]

Looking for any modifications beyond what I've listed below that will help improve handling on my 1974 bay camper. I've replaced EVERYTHING, you name it, it's been done including front and rear oversized sway bars and adjustable Koni's all round. Steering box, damper, ball joints, all front end parts new and of good quality. I have no play or shakes and it tracks straight until light winds or speeds get up above 60 mph. Taking this thing on long trips is far from relaxing and easy, no coffee in one hand and the other on the wheel. It takes constant effort to stay in my lane and on track. I find the tires pull on any road grooves and if trucks pass me watch out! Alignment is on, just double checked, I'm suspecting tires which seem to have a very soft side wall might be the biggest problem?
I'm running brand new Hankooks from the Bus Depot on brand new stock rims. Any thoughts would help. I'm open to new rims and lower profile tires if it makes a big difference or any mods that will do the job. I've dropped crazy money into this machine already and I'm too far in to turn back now.

Thanks,
Dave

[aeromech]

You've got the best shocks, the best tires, and new steering components including HD sway bars. If you're not happy with the way it drives I don't think you ever will be. Honestly, I can't think of one more thing you could do to make it handle better. I guess you could experiment with some aerodynamic surfaces such as an air dam or possibly an air foil for the roof to keep the bus on the ground at high speed.
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[airkooledchris]

if that wasn't enough, there's very little left you can do - but there is one more thing that will add a minimal amount of stability in cross winds - lowering it.

get drop spindles for the front and horse shoe plates for the rear, from wagenswest.com.

if that doesn't get you what you are looking for handling-wise, your gonna have to man up and deal with it, or sell it and buy a Honda - because it's an old big heavy van and it shouldn't be expected to handle much differently than you'd expect.

[ghiastein]

One of the best and most cheapest improvement that I did to help with handling on my 1970 Westy Bus was to adjust the rear ride height. The rear was sagging a bit and I believe that it was causing the front to lift at highway speeds. I adjusted the rear to sit level with the front. So after I climb in the bus the front drops a bit causing the rear to be higher than the front. At first I was not trying to improve handling just to fix the saggy rear. Remember to also replace the rubber bushings when adjusting the torsion bars.
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1969 Karmann Ghia Lowered w/B6 engine 1600cc sp
1970 Westy Bus 1600cc sp

[78Kombi]

guy I got a hightop. I dont drive on the high ways here. theres nothing you can do when most of the traffic is doing 85 and you are doing 60. it will always feel like you are getting rear ended and blown all around.
take the back roads, it is way nicer. drink your coffee and chill. you'll get there.
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78 hightop 2.0 FI

[ToolBox]

[busdaddy]

Did you have sandbags or bodies in the front seats when you had the alignment done? Toe in changes with load and can make it drive like you describe.
What pressure are you running in the tires?
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[Wildthings]

I have found that minor tweeting of the toe in can make a big difference in how a van handles. I just use a tape measure to check the toe in between the tread front and back on the front tires and then make adjustments in 1/32 increments, usually towards the "toe out" side of the middle of the spec.

Make sure your wheel bearing as tight as well. IIRC the spec is something like .000 - .006 inches of end play. With it towards the tighter end of the spec you will have very little noticeable rock when you shake the wheel.

Did you do the rear torsion tube bushings?

What tire pressures are you running? These things are pretty light up front and don't need close to the maximum pressures written on the sides of the tires. They may go all over the road if you are even a few psi about what the book recommends.

Not a vehicle that is ever conducive to driving with one hand, but unless there are pretty strong winds they shouldn't take a whole lot of effort to maintain your lane.

[Esher127]

[dsomoroff]

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions.
I'm going to try them out. I do notice quite a drop in the rear of the bus and will attempt to level out and have the toe-in rechecked. I had increased the tire pressure to about 38 to tighten them up, it did help a little, I'm going to try to bring this down in the front since it is so much lighter then the rear and see if this helps.

[Fillmore77]

Ratwell has made a lot of tests using various components, his site has a page with a lot of info. I remember he had found that the rear sway bar was detrimental to good handling in some situations. You might want to try the truck without it.

Handling is achieved by a balance between the front and rear handling, too much or too little in front or in back throws the whole result off.

Try describing what part of the handling you find problematic, i.e. does the front want to turn away form the wind, or into it, or is the rear all over the place, etc...

Your description of how the tires want to fall into the grooves is a good exemple. Tire manufacturers came up with the radial tire to combat this effect, but at high loads and wide sidewalls, (like our 185r14's) radials feel like driving through pudding, which is why we need the reinforced sidewalls.

I use Continental Vanco 2 tires that were specifically designed for small utility vans, they were in fact OEM on Eurovans in europe. They are 6 plies, meet the weight/load requirements, but have a softer sidewall then full blown 8 plies. I don't have any issues with groove tracking, and the curve handling I find is wonderfull. I am running cheap cofap shocks on all corners, but have a HD sway bar in front with Urethane busshings. I only fight the steering wheel on high crosswinds. The Vancos set me back only $460 canadian $ delivered for 4 tires from tiretrends.com out of Vancouver.
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1977 Bay Westy, stock 2.0l FI, Hailing from Quebec, Canada.

[Randy in Maine]

I also like the rear bus butt sag diagnosis.

I don't run a rear stabilizer bar myself, but is yours adjustable?

[kmmcdonald]

The best handling improvement I have noticed on our 1978 Westfalia was the addition of Nokian Hakka C Van tires. In fact, this is the only thing that I ever recall, in 32 years, that caused a noticeable improvement in handling.

[Fillmore77]

My bus scared my wife so much when I first bought it she told me sha wasn't riding in it until I do something to improve the wallowing-hippo-on- ice-skates feeling...

I changed tires (Vanco 2's are also C rated), front 7/8" sway bar, AND replaced the worn out steering swing lever. All at once, so I can't really tell you what made the biggest difference.

But I've gotten no complaints since...
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You can have it quickly, you can have it good, you can have it cheap...Pick two...

1977 Bay Westy, stock 2.0l FI, Hailing from Quebec, Canada.

[Desertbusman]

I vote for toe adjustment and tire pressure. The Hankooks are as good as they get. If your new ball joints are still stiff you will be overcorrecting any movement and it really agravates the problem. If that is the issue once they loosen up it will be totally different and you'll be happy with the way it handles.
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71 Westy

[morymob]

I had a '70 bus for awhile and i agree, it's a handful in a gusty side wind. It is basically just a heavier sized bug suspension and is prone to a lot of wobble with the top heavy body sitting on top. Tire helped the most,but as earlier stated u have to live with this quirky handling. Experiment with tire pres, very important, the rear needs more than the front. An example: i have the same tires on my WBX (i know,next gen)but tire press sensitive to it also, 40 psi in front, 45-50 in rear and makes very stable. If u want easy test get behind a 18 wheeler an go by the pitching around, that press calmed mine down to nil, just a suggestion, luck.

[TomWesty]

I live in one of the windiest parts of the US. More air pressure in your tires is my vote. Also, maybe a little ballast in the bus too.I run the Nexen 820's with full pressure. Steers easily and much less wind wag.
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[SGKent]

there are two or three major things going on that cause this.

The rear of the bus has sagged. Putting it back to spec will help - DON"T lower the front to match the back. Put the rear back to spec.

The steering worm is out of adjustment or worn in the steering gear. If you have less than 5/8" movement in the wheel before the tires begin to move it is Ok. If there is more then the box is worn or something else is. We found that the meyle drag link we bought new had more slop in it than the used one. We found an italian brand OC and it had zero and that made a big difference. Make sure the rubber puck in the steering is good too.

Make sure the wheel bearings are near the tighter side of the specs and not at the loose end. Triple check toe and camber.

You can drink coffee and drive a bus when it is tuned but you won't do it when trucks are passing you by or there is a quartering wind,
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[josh]