How to spot a 21 or 23 Clone ?

pete000 · Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:13 pm Post subject: How to spot a 21 or 23 Clone ?

I am more of a Vanagon guy, but interested in obtaining a 21 or 23 window Split bus. I have seen a lot that have been put together from donor parts windows roofs etc..

What do I look for when looking for the real deal ?

I want an investment vehicle and would not be that interested in a repro.

Does the VIN tell anything about the config from the factory?

Thanks
_________________
1990 Vanagon RS 2.1
1967 Deluxe 21 window
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H & R Red Springs
Addco Sway Bars Front-Rear
18 X 7.5 and 18 X 8 OEM Porsche Wheels
Recaro Power-Heated seats

IN2RUST · Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:55 pm Post subject:

The only Real way to tell is by a birth certificate. Also make sure it has belly pans. Also a good indication is the wiring will run through a tube in the belly pan and not have tabs in that area. But really only birth cert.

Motel65 · Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:56 pm Post subject:

As a non expert i would saythat it would be just as easy to clone the VIN number

DMNCLNR · Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:49 pm Post subject:

twinwindows · Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:29 pm Post subject:

If you know buses from the inside out its way easy to tell. A vin wont always be able to help but key areas can and will tell the difference.

I ran into a guy who claimed his bus was a real 23 and had push button front door openers. I asked to open the rear decklid and sure enough there were all the tattletales of a 21 with a corner window bus being grafted on. Psssshhh... C`mon!
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DMNCLNR · Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:24 pm Post subject:

EverettB · Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject:

The M-code plate should have a Deluxe model code. Model 241 or 251 if this is a USA Bus. It should NOT have M-code 130 either, which would mean it was originally a hardtop Deluxe.

This is assuming the M-code plate is intact and original. If it's for investment purposes, I would pass on any Bus missing any VIN plates or M-code plate.
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60DoubleTurd · Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject:

So if I am looking at a REAL 15 it SHOULD have the 130 on the MCode plate right?
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66 L87 Variant Pigalle

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EverettB · Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:24 pm Post subject:

60DoubleTurd · Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:46 pm Post subject:

I am pretty sure it is the real deal. It still has OG paint dash and OG paint under black primer. I hope it has the MCode plate on it still. It was in the woods under a tree for years.
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66 L87 Variant Pigalle

SBS #17

wanta23 · Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:34 pm Post subject:

Motel65 · Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:52 pm Post subject:

make sure its a real tree though ....and not just some fake Christmas tree someones grafted on..... i hear that happens all the time

60DoubleTurd · Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:26 pm Post subject:

wanta23 · Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:35 pm Post subject:

pete000 · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:30 pm Post subject:

I think the 21 walk through I am looking at is the real deal. It's a 67 with some rust and totally drivable. Some stuff is a bit off, but fixable.

I did a vin check on the bus vin check site and it came up with "Built on: August 1966"

It has chrome speedo ring, clock, chrome ash tray, deluxe trim, jail bars, OEM glass, belly pans and I see no evidence of any body work (headliner is all removed). Radio looks to be opened to din size (Junk cd player installed)? There are some odd holes drilled in the nose around the VW badge with plugs in them. Front safari windows poorly installed. All side glass has pop out hinges with painted trim.

I did get the VIN, but being the novice I am could not locate the Vin tag or M plate? Where do I find those.

Thanks for all the advice. Looks like I might be picking this one up. I will post pictures upon delivery.
_________________
1990 Vanagon RS 2.1
1967 Deluxe 21 window
--------------------
Koni Shocks
H & R Red Springs
Addco Sway Bars Front-Rear
18 X 7.5 and 18 X 8 OEM Porsche Wheels
Recaro Power-Heated seats

roberto · Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:53 am Post subject:

It sounds like you are on the right track. most hacks don't install belly pans. very important. For me when trying to make sure are belly pans, and m-code 130.

FG1732 · Samba Member Joined: March 03, 2004 Posts: 354

pics?

pete000 · Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:24 pm Post subject:

I will post some pics soon. I am stripping it out, needs to visit the metal guy soon. Front floor is Toast, rear cargo floor, pretty bad, dash hacked for a crap radio (I found a donor section), lots of minor rust bites all over it, frame is solid, passenger side walk through partially cut. Crap $400.00 paint job, Surfer boy teal. Has good Velvet Green and pearl White under the trim and wheel wells.

M codes and VIN are all correct. True early 1967 21 window.

I think I paid a bit too much, but oh well at least I will be building what I want. I think she will sort out nicely.
_________________
1990 Vanagon RS 2.1
1967 Deluxe 21 window
--------------------
Koni Shocks
H & R Red Springs
Addco Sway Bars Front-Rear
18 X 7.5 and 18 X 8 OEM Porsche Wheels
Recaro Power-Heated seats

mandysbus · Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:52 am Post subject:

pete000 · Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:23 pm Post subject:

Well this one is cut super big ! They sawed half the fins out ! I hate hacks ! They did leave the stock dash speaker intact though.
_________________
1990 Vanagon RS 2.1
1967 Deluxe 21 window
--------------------
Koni Shocks
H & R Red Springs
Addco Sway Bars Front-Rear
18 X 7.5 and 18 X 8 OEM Porsche Wheels
Recaro Power-Heated seats


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